Jocelyn Greenky has worked for Rolling Stone, Simon & Schuster, and the C-suite, and still couldn't get a job at 52. She shares what that reset taught her about family businesses, relationship capital, and the one thing that derails even the most talented entrepreneurs.
Episode 21: Building Businesses, Masterminds, and Meaningful Conversations with Jocelyn Greenky
Something shifted in this conversation almost immediately. What started as a business interview quickly turned into a masterclass on relationships, resilience, and how real success is built over decades, not months.
Save to Zero co-hosts Mike and Zach sit down with entrepreneur, educator, and family business coach Joceyln Greenky to talk about everything from masterminds and AI disruption to communication styles, relationship capital, and knowing when to stay focused versus chasing the next shiny object.
Jocelyn shares how growing up around a Mennonite farm shaped her work ethic, why she went back to school in her 50s, and what she’s learned from more than four decades in business.
This episode dives into entrepreneurship, family business dynamics, emotional intelligence, and why the strongest business advantage might actually be your ability to connect with people. From corporate leadership to teaching students, building businesses, and advising family-run companies, this conversation is packed with practical wisdom and honest insight.
“Relationship capital is everything. You never know which conversation is going to change your life.”
“With AI and the displacement of so many crucial jobs, I think we’re going to see more family businesses emerge.”
“Interesting ideas come when your back is against the wall, and you’re faced with what to do.”
“You’re not alone in business. The problems you’re facing? Someone else has already faced them, too.”
Jocelyn Greenky, MBA, is a no-nonsense business fixer, keynote speaker, and author with 40+ years of experience transforming companies and business reputations. From Fortune 500 giants to family-run firms, she’s helped leaders cut through chaos, build credibility, and drive real results with an all-in mentality.
She’s the author of The Big Sister’s Guide to the World of Work (Simon & Schuster) and a trusted expert featured on CNBC, CNN, and in The New York Times and Forbes. Jocelyn has held C-suite roles across media, tech, and lifestyle brands—ELLE, Rolling Stone, Car and Driver, Men’s Journal, HBO, Material Bank—and served as an adjunct professor at Mercy University and Queen’s College.
Grounded, funny, and fearless, Jocelyn brings clarity to complexity—and a serious edge to leadership. She lives in Greenwich, CT, with her husband, three dogs, and a never-empty dinner table full of family.
Find Jocelyn Greenky on her Website
Find Jocelyn Greenky on LinkedIn and Instagram
For Investors & the Fund – Learn how the Fund works and book a call
For Borrowers & Deals – Get funding and support for your next investment
[00:00.0]
If you're going to have a family business, you got to run it like a business. My theory is that with AI and the displacement of so many crucial jobs that are being run by AI, the initial thing will be more family businesses because that's what I would do if I got laid off.
[00:16.6]
The first thing I would do is look, who do I know who could give me a job? Start with family, go to uncles, cousins, et cetera as part of the networking thing. Most people think saving money is the answer, but the truth is saving only gets you to zero.
[00:35.1]
Join Mike and Zach as they flip the script from saving to earning from zero to unlimited potential. Welcome to Save to Zero. Everybody, welcome to episode number 21. We are very happy to have on Jocelyn Grinke.
[00:53.7]
Jocelyn is dynamic. I got to meet her through LinkedIn, believe it or not, the all connector of business people. And I am actually blown away by her story because I can relate to it a little bit in terms of stuff my mom went through, so on and so forth.
[01:09.5]
So I love having dynamic people on who motivate me and I think this is going to be fantastic. I'm really looking forward to this. So Jocelyn, give us a 50,000 foot 30 second intro.
[01:26.2]
Make it 60 seconds. Go ahead. Okay, so now I'm going to go forward. Now I work with a lot of family businesses as a business, family business whisperer. And I got to this place because I had an incredible career that took me through my 20s, my 30s, my 40s and I came up with a concept where it was connecting recipe websites with grocery stores because as a busy mom of four bonus and two of my own, who wants to go to the grocery store, you want to go to a recipe website, you want to get your stuff and be sent.
[02:07.4]
So that was provided to a grocery store in the city called d'. Agostino's. Yes. When I went back to to get a job, even with all of my unbelievable background career at Philip Morris, at Wenner Media, which owns Rolling Stone, Austin Men's Journal Hachette, the largest publishing magazine publishing company in the world, is the global editorial director for the digital assets COO of a company called Colin Cowie, which was a lifestyle, and still is amazing platform for lifestyle design.
[02:45.7]
I could not get a job. So I went back to school at 52 at night. I had already written a book. The book was published by Simon and Schuster, which is another topic. But mostly I went back to school and that was changed my life 100%.
[03:04.6]
All of you out there, if you're doesn't matter how old you are, it changes your thinking towards business and towards your personal life. So now I took all those other experiences and wrapped it all up into Business Transformation Advisor.
[03:21.0]
Okay, that is a lot to unpack. This is going to be great. Okay, so you hit on something that got my attention because. And it's just a personal thing. I hate making up, going to the supermarket, looking for stuff, et cetera.
[03:40.5]
So tell me about this app and how you integrate it with d'. Agostinos. Well, you have to do an mvp, which I didn't know what that meant because I always worked for companies, so I didn't have to do anything. I didn't really know how to write a financial plan.
[03:55.8]
And so we got somebody off of, a website where you find people who are willing to do the work in exchange for equity. So I spent a long time at. That was really interesting how to get the associations involved.
[04:13.5]
Ran around to different supermarkets, but it was really too early because they didn't have Internet most of the supermarkets at that time in the stores yet. So it was. I knew just how my brain works is that I can have a sense.
[04:29.4]
I read a lot of what might be happening in a couple of years from now. So I. D' Agostinos was our first customer. So by the time I had already put in a year and a half or two years into it, I was just I needed to move on. It was just time. So that's. It's a.
[04:46.6]
It was a great idea. Has anyone picked it up and run with it? When they took it, I walked. And so d' Agostino's was then sold to another, store in the city. So I don't really know what happened with it after that, but at least I recouped. Okay. No good.
[05:04.8]
Interesting. Well, kind of. On a side note, that's a little sad to me that d' Agostino sold because that's where I used to shop when I went to school at nyu. Yeah, no, it's still around. I just not. It doesn't own. I don't think it's not owned by the d' Agostino family anymore. Oh, okay, Gotcha. Okay, so tell us about this book.
[05:22.2]
What was the, topic? What was it about? Well, I worked. As I mentioned, I'm originally from Buffalo. I grew up in two different place settings, if you will. One is, a traditional family.
[05:37.6]
My father was a doctor. My mother worked as a teacher and then a fundraiser. And then we had now they call them nannies, but back in the day, in the 70s, they were called housekeepers. Yes, housekeeper. That we enjoyed for 40 years, from the beginning to the end.
[05:56.9]
Her name was Emma Cider and was a Mennonite and had a farm in Canada where I spent weekends, holidays, summers. I was very happy on the farm. That's cool. That's really cool. Yep. I loved it. I still do. I'm a farm girl in the end.
[06:14.5]
And I. Nobody teaches you office politics. When you graduate from college, you go to New York. I worked in an advertising agency in the first place, but I didn't know what I was doing. So after several jobs, I realized I really wish there was a handbook.
[06:34.5]
Literally, do this, don't do that. Not theory, but telling me what to do. So and so that was the book that I wrote, and it is called the Big Sister's Guide to the World of Work. It's still relevant today. Sure.
[06:51.7]
Because it's all the same. And because it's human nature. It's human how we interact with each other. What to talk about, for example, not your personal life, not politics. Don't post pictures if you don't think you should. Be careful who you respond to when you hit.
[07:09.7]
All because the boss is probably on there. If you're slamming the boss. I mean, a lot of the tips, is in there. Guilty. So that's where the book came from. And it has served as a wonderful platform for speaking gigs, for becoming an adjunct professor at different colleges and universities that I've taught at.
[07:32.2]
And here we are. Okay, now you just opened up something else. Where have you taught, what universities, and what are the topics that you were on? You know, real life. And this is what to do. This is what you're going to learn here. This is what, what's real. Right.
[07:47.9]
Well, I teach, unconventionally, actually. I, teach at Queens College right now, which, by the way, did you know it's the second oldest college in the country? I mean, it's amazing. Interesting. The wonderful, wonderful students who come from salt of the earth background.
[08:06.7]
I mean, fabulous. And I've taught at Mercy College, which is now Mercy University, and I've lectured definitely other places at Syracuse, nyu. And how I teach is since I'm there not to really make grades.
[08:25.5]
I mean, this is how I feel. I'm there for them to learn. So if they have a paper, they can resubmit it after I make my comments and allow them to learn how to do it, but I force them to read the paper. Out loud from before to afterwards, so they understand business.
[08:43.2]
Writing, as you guys know, is not the same as a letter. It's a skill that I had to learn over time through terrible errors. I mean, terrible. There wasn't chatgpt around to fix that stuff. And even if there was, you have to know what you're writing about.
[09:00.8]
So I teach, business communications, critical thinking, entrepreneurship. Depends on what the school's looking for. And we go through the basics of how, businesses started. I mean, when you're a freshman and sophomore, you don't know anything.
[09:19.4]
They don't even know about credit cards. That's gonna be my next focus. Where teaching kids about finance, which is, your whole platform, which is staving to zero, is really a fear factor. Right? It's about people freaking out and fearing they're not gonna have any money, where they're not thinking in a broader macro sense. Right?
[09:39.1]
What is the difference between macro and micro? Macro is like, let it pour out. Think broadly. How can you make more money? How can you get other people to make the money for you at a low cost or no cost?
[09:55.8]
So, I think those are the kinds of conversations where I go down with the, students and really ask them, do you know about this? Do you know what entrepreneurship means? Do you know how a business is set up? I mean, they really are newbies at everything.
[10:12.8]
Private versus public companies. What is Wall Street? Wall Street's just a street, everyone. The trading doesn't happen on Wall street anymore. It's all on computers. We go down through all of depends on what the colleges want.
[10:28.8]
But, what I do is I thread stories from my working. Overall, 42 years I've been working, I've never not worked. So I worked as the head of marketing and broadcasting for Wenner Media, which is Rolling Stone, us and Men's Journal. So I produced the first branded television shows for E.
[10:48.2]
Fox, the Weather Channel, and espn. And I did syndicated radio shows under Rolling Stones. So I worked with all the top bands. So I get to bring in those stories to make them more exciting for them to at least relate to.
[11:05.2]
That's really cool. Did you always want to give back? I writing a book and teaching, I or did you kind of just start in business and get really far along and say, oh, now I have something to teach? Or how did that go through your mind of, when you thought you were going to do that? I think all of it.
[11:20.6]
I've been, There was no roadmap. Now you You can go to school for finance, you can go get your mba, and then you can go to Wall street and you can be in investment banking. That's a road. I came from a background where, honestly, my parents favored my brothers.
[11:36.9]
Both of my parents are not here. But, it is true in the seventies in our culture, that just how it was. So I didn't have the guidance, if you will, to focus in on that. Plus, I probably had, I think, a little bit of a learning disability that I wasn't able to take in certain information.
[11:59.5]
So I went with what was in front of me rather than thinking, oh, I'm gonna stick to this road. That is not how it works. And even now, back to your platform. I take from what is being spoken about, what somebody may say to me at a cocktail party or what I read in the news, and then start leveraging on that.
[12:23.9]
Some people might look at it, oh, she's hustling all the time. I say I'm being strategic. So it depends on how you want to frame that conversation. So now, yeah, me doing podcasts and teaching, it's just, I want people to know.
[12:41.9]
I want kids to know. I want people who are changing careers to understand what they're in for or, whatever anyone is focusing on. It really is good to have somebody who's been there to at least guide you.
[12:57.6]
Now, most people, as we all know. Sorry about the dog. Most people, will probably do well. They'll hear you, but that doesn't mean they're listening or will follow. Right. After the mistake happens and they say, I should have listened.
[13:13.4]
I mean, I. You Try to say. And I. It is. I try to say, I try to avoid I told you so. Yeah, sure, sure, sure. What's the point? But now, the business is getting paid, so people who are interested in thinking broadly and not going to zero will listen.
[13:35.4]
Yeah, I think a lot of people with business, they feel like they're all alone and nobody's ever done it before. And, yeah, even if you're doing something totally new, the kinds of problems that you have, people have been dealing with for a long time. So, I think that makes a lot of sense. So they're not that different. Right.
[13:55.7]
Let me ask how if. If you're in Buffalo and then you come down to the city, you come Down to Manhattan. How did working on the farm? Because you said you're a farm girl. How, did that help you when you got into the city?
[14:11.6]
Because clearly they're completely different worlds. And I think sometimes when people think of New York, all they think of is twin towers. And they never even conceive of the fact that there's a lot of farmland and there's a lot of open land in New York. How do you think that, that transition, that helped you, your skill sets on the farm with going into the corporate world?
[14:35.3]
Two things. I was willing to do anything. I was, I was willing to do, literally. I sharpened pencils for Judy Owens in my first job ever. I didn't complain, I didn't make a thing.
[14:50.9]
I went and got her eight size eight pencils and just did it exactly what she wanted. So in a farm situation, you do not say, how about this idea or that idea? You just do what you're told. So when you do what you're told at the beginning of someone's career, you actually learn a lot more if you keep your mouth shut, do what you're told, and then at a certain time when you have the experience under your belt, that, you can come back and give suggestions.
[15:24.9]
So that was one thing. I just also, I think that when. Which was very important. I'm very respectful for the people that I work with. Yeah. And so please and thank you and kindness, I think, went a long way.
[15:42.9]
A lot of, obviously a lot of people know me. However, I don't have a mean bone in my body. I mean, unless you really get at me, you're going to see the response. Yeah. I'm not saying I'm the specialist person in the world, but I think that at the time it was really important that that came along, that respect came along at the right time.
[16:08.5]
At the 70s and 80s, 90s, you know what I mean? Not 70s, but the 80s and 90s. That was an important part. Also what was a really big deal is that I've always primarily worked with men. There are different animal working as bosses, men versus women.
[16:27.9]
I have two older brothers and everyone who I worked with on the farm, like the daily tasks were men. So that played into a lot of positive things on my part.
[16:44.8]
Can you give me an example of a couple of things, of a couple of ways you think that that helped you? I knew when to back off. I knew when to push. I still do. I knew when to crack a joke. I knew when to take the joke that maybe was off color as not a personal thing or that it was a joke.
[17:10.2]
It was funny. And it wasn't meant to scar or Slam other people. It was a silly joke. And so I think that's helpful with men because again, I worked with a lot of women, I haven't worked for a lot of women.
[17:31.6]
That's a different animal. Gotcha. So understanding the pace. So in business school, when you're referring to the pace of every day is called climate.
[17:47.5]
You want to know what the climate is every day? Oh, what's the culture? Well, the truth is you're asking what the climate is of a business, which is every day. Is it fun, is it erratic, is it consistent, is it, intense?
[18:03.6]
What is the climate of that? So with that I can tell the climate and I have a very good sense of having emotional intelligence of when somebody's in a bad mood. You don't push when somebody's in a good mood, push, ask for a raise for raise.
[18:23.4]
When no is not a no, it means maybe. So you gotta know when no's are nos and nos or maybes and when you know the different terms. At the end of the day. We hear this all the time at the end of the day. Okay, well, at the end, what?
[18:40.0]
I didn't know what terms that meant at the end of the day, or grandfathered in or various different terms. Cause every industry has their own terms. Sure. So back to teaching. I teach a lot of those types of things to the kids.
[18:56.1]
I mean, I don't know if they're really listening. They heard me. They don't get tested on it. But it's important to know how all of it works. I think what's gonna happen is at some point in their career, they're gonna go, And it's gonna click for them and go, oh, I owe her one because I can remember.
[19:16.0]
Yeah, yeah, that's what she meant. Yeah, very good. But no, because I've done it. Meant nothing to me. But yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, right, Yeah. I mean, how many times in life have you something hitting you? And my mom was right, my teacher was right. Now I get it.
[19:31.1]
Now I've got something I can pin the, I can pin it on. Otherwise it's just words out there. Until you can pin it, it's just correct. So how was. Because it's not a transition that's made very often. My second company that I owned was a construction company and we did property damage repair.
[19:47.1]
So fire, water, vehicle impact. And when I started my company, I started at the same time as a guy from New York who was, no, he lived in California. Formerly from New York. He Was an investment banker. And with all his skill sets, he was unable to make a go of the business because he wasn't able to make the transition from having an HR department and calling payroll.
[20:13.1]
And now he was up on the farm. He had to do everything that needed to be done and he couldn't make the transition. So you, had the farm background with your housekeeper, nanny, and that taught you how did you make the transition?
[20:32.1]
Because once you get the training in the corporate world of calling hr, how did you make the transition into entrepreneurship? How difficult was that for you? Oh, I was just done with that last job. I had worked for one company for 13 years, another one for seven, and I was just done.
[20:49.5]
It didn't matter. Also, I had just gotten married and I felt that maybe there was more of a financial security for me to. To try that out. Okay.
[21:04.5]
That was one of the. Those are definitely something in my mind. And it was just done working for other people. I mean, particularly if you think. I thought I was just as clever, but I knew I wasn't just as smart. And that's why I went back to school. There's just stuff that in school you're gonna getting your mba, you just don't know.
[21:25.3]
And they're all the same textbooks. Everyone out there is considering this. You they're. Generally speaking, if you're going to an Ivy League or a really good school, that's really more about connecting with other fabulous people. Yes. Yeah. Rather than learning the thing, the information, because it's all the same, if you at most schools.
[21:46.5]
It's funny that you say that because I know somebody who went to Stanford and he calls it the Stanford Mafia. He said it is all about the connections and he relies on that network. And, he's had one exit that was a billion dollars.
[22:05.9]
He just had another exit. It wasn't in a billion dollar range. It wasn't even close. But now he's working on a third company that he wants to be a billion dollar exit. Actually, he and his dad run a fund that has a billion dollars out there invested, as angel investors.
[22:22.8]
But he says that it is the Stanford mafia. And you hit that right on the head. Absolutely, yes. I mean, a lot of schools are like that when you really connect. But tell him to. I'd love to know his name. Who doesn't want a billion dollar exit?
[22:39.8]
I mean, geez. Yeah. And yeah, when he started the company, he was in his, 20s when he started it. I don't think he's 40 now. And he's had two exits, so. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Dad's a dynamic guy as well, so it makes sense.
[22:55.4]
They've got a whole family, tree going on there. So in the family business business. There you go. Well, yeah, they actually sit around at the beginning of each year and they talk about what the goals are for the company, for the, for the. I'm sorry, for the family, what the goals are for the company that they do together, the other companies they're involved in.
[23:14.4]
And they have quarterly meetings as a family. It's very interesting the way he's sophisticated. Not every, all those families out there are sophisticated. Yeah. Oh, no, he's sophisticated. So tell us how it is that, you're in now working with small, with family owned businesses.
[23:34.0]
Can you give us a little information on that? Yes, of course. I mean, certainly people can hire me who are small in nature. But mostly these are anywhere 5 million plus in revenue.
[23:49.0]
Because to afford me, I'm just saying happy to work with anyone, truly I am. But this is the dichotomy between the family, the operations of the business, but also the human discussion of what's going on, that's not being discussed because resentments are not pretty and resentments are very old.
[24:14.6]
And so sometimes the generational dynamics, the communication is you especially when there's three different generations involved. Of course. So having a translator, to help, you smooth that conversation over, that knows about the operation side is helpful.
[24:35.0]
There's just some people who can't get the words out in time. Right. Bad mood. Who knows what's going on personally with them. So, it's bad weather day for them. Bad weather day. Exactly. The climate's up. And so there's a lot of times it's with board members who, you are just frustrated that they're not getting their point across or they're not being heard.
[24:59.9]
How to work that. So I'm hired as an interim CEO. Right now, I'm an interim CEO for two or three companies. And, I'll come in and you can use me or my name. I'll make the tough decisions. Blame it on me.
[25:15.3]
I don't care that I agree with, of course, or run it, temporarily train people and then have them take over. So the idea is even for working with families like your friend and setting up family help with succession or, paperwork, there's a lot of families out there that don't have job descriptions.
[25:41.4]
There's no Contracts, it's a, mess. And if somebody does pass, it's a bigger mess. And fights happen all the time. So it's really just getting everything sorted out in order. Are there particular industries you tend to work with a lot more than others, or is it all over the place?
[25:58.9]
It's all over the place. Because, honestly, you guys setting up a business, it's the same blueprint, really, over and over, and depending on who the stakeholders are, it's all kind of the same. I mean, for me, I don't. I like the dichotomy. Not the dichotomy, but I like the diversity of it all.
[26:16.6]
So. No, I mean, even if it's a, you shipbuilding business to digital marketing to healthcare, the bones are the same. You the family issues that come up or don't come up are usually the same.
[26:36.9]
And family is defined differently in 2026. Sure. Okay. Okay. So family, that's a big one. Meaning you guys or I have a friend who I consider a sister.
[26:52.7]
That's a family business, you and I, because the trust is there, right? That's the cornerstone. Okay, sure. You, it's. Family is ex in laws, ex husband, spouses, partners, wives, kids of, children of friends who are involved in the family.
[27:16.7]
But if you're going to have a family business, you got to run it like a business. That's the thing. And so my theory is that with AI, And the displacement of so many crucial jobs that are being run by AI the initial thing will be more family businesses.
[27:33.6]
Because that's what I would do, Right. If I got laid off, the first thing I would do is. Look, who do I know who could give me a job? Start with family. Go to uncles, cousins, et cetera, as part of the networking thing.
[27:50.8]
Okay. That's where I'm anyway. But that's, The family dynamic has surely changed. I think the next question you're probably gonna ask me is how the cultures change. Because I've worked with so many different cultures, not only is she able to read the climate, she's able to read minds as well.
[28:11.2]
That's impressive. I'm just saying there's a lot of different. Yeah, But I've worked with a lot of Indians, South Americans, Canadians, and then in our own country, Northeast people are so wildly different than, Southeast people.
[28:35.6]
Yes, they are. I mean, it's crazy, but you gotta know the difference. How to talk and deal to make sure everybody can communicate properly. And it's funny, I grew up in the northeast, about 50 miles south of, Fenway Park.
[28:53.9]
And now I live in the Rocky Mountains. And it is a completely different form of communication. When I get on the phone with somebody from the Northeast, they want to. They have an eject. They have a reason they're on the phone, and then they need to get off the phone, and they move on.
[29:11.8]
Well, where I live, no, exchanging information is only 10% of it. 90% of it is visiting with whoever you're on the phone with. And when I first move, you have to visit. Yeah, that's a good term, a really good term for people to understand what visit means.
[29:30.3]
Seriously. By the way, having a dog is a really good thing for all of you guys who are looking to expand how you can make money, because you go outside and you meet other people. That's true. And you eventually get around when it's appropriate to say, what do you do for a living?
[29:48.0]
You and you never know the conversations that might be had out of that. But how to leverage it and make money is a, really interesting. No, but you. You. But you've hit upon something that I've heard somebody else say.
[30:03.2]
It was probably about five or six years ago was the first time I heard it is relationship capital. And what you're doing is you're building relationships. And I think what some people don't focus on and they forget, they miss the nuance, is relationship capital is planting a seed that may never sprout, but you still take care of it as if it's going to be your food for the rest of your life, because you don't know what's going to sprout, and you don't know if it's going to take four years to sprout.
[30:35.3]
I had somebody that, in our business, Zach and I are what's known as private money lenders. So we lend money to people in the real estate industry, for various asset classes. And there was someone that I had known for three years before he came to me for his first loan.
[30:52.0]
And we got along well. We considered ourselves friendly. I gave him tickets to a Red Sox game that I wasn't going to be in town for. And we were friends. We're friends, but it was three years. So, you hit on something. Relationship capital, because you don't know and take the time to visit.
[31:11.4]
And I didn't always do that. Growing up in the Northeast, I was okay, I'm on the phone. I got to get this answer. I got to move on. Now. I actually have to when I speak with somebody from the Northeast, it's a different conversation than when I speak with somebody in the town that I live in.
[31:26.5]
And I may be speaking to an accountant in my town, but it's completely different communication. Absolutely, Absolutely. Thank you for supporting my business. That's exactly right. Yeah. And you just build. So when you went back for your mba, was that something that.
[31:45.2]
When you left the business world initially, the corporate world, was that something. Was your intent, or did you say, one day, I think I want to do this? I knew I had to do something really radical different. So I went at night while I was working during the day, and I, was teaching at Mercy as an adjunct, so.
[32:09.8]
And I knew that was going to be a good financial decision because I was going to get a, a lower cost by teaching and. Right. So that's, why I made. No, but it didn't. Yeah. So you were working and teaching and got, your MBA at the same time and bringing up two children.
[32:26.3]
Wow, that's very impressive. That is very impressive. Yeah. I have two dogs that stress me out, you guys. You gotta do what you gotta do, So it's just interesting. Ideas come when you're faced with.
[32:45.2]
Your back is against the wall and you're faced with what to do. I didn't think there was a choice. There wasn't a choice. There's still not a choice now. Maybe some of it goes back to working on a farm. There's a lot of stuff to do, and you don't get to say, yeah, I don't feel like milking those cows this morning or whatever.
[33:02.8]
You have to. That works. There's no choice. 4:30 in the morning. That's it. Yeah. There's no choice. That is very, very, very true. Doesn't matter if it's raining, if it's Christmas, who cares? Nope.
[33:18.3]
You gotta go intense. Yeah. And interesting. I will tell you, I'm surprised. I mean, I'm a meat eater. I always have been. Cause I use the whole. I wear leather, for example. Use the whole. I get it. Yeah.
[33:33.8]
But, animals are amazing. I mean, they all have personalities. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Where do you. Where do you want to go from here? I mean, I'm amazed at all the stuff that you've done. And I like to do a lot of stuff.
[33:50.7]
Zach does a lot of stuff. He's got his mba. He is a beekeeper. He's learning how to pilot a plane. He lives on 40 acres, but he has 40,000 acres as his backyard up in New Hampshire. He's on. What is it? The planning board.
[34:06.3]
He does a lot of stuff. And I respectfully, Zach, there's nothing compared to everything you've done. What the heck is next? Yeah, I'm inspired. What do you think is next, Jocelyn? I wish I knew. You right now, I'm focused on not getting sidetracked.
[34:23.7]
So Okay, that's. Here's a good thing, Michael. You have focused on exactly what you've wanted. You've made money doing that. You did two exits, whatever it was, you were like this, which is awesome, and you're comfortable in life right now.
[34:40.4]
I think that one of the things. My downside, everyone, is that because my back was at a wall, I took jobs and I did to make money where I got off of the brand. The brand is right here. Right.
[34:56.9]
Where I can do different things for different businesses at any one time. But when somebody approached me and said, hey, how about doing so and so you'll work for me, and you're gonna be doing xyz and I'm gonna pay you this month, I would take those jobs rather than focusing on, developing a podcast, developing whatever brand was.
[35:23.3]
So if I had to say if there was one big mistake I've made, that's it. That was, rather than just staying on the ship, keep going with the ship, put the money into the ship, and not getting sidetracked. I think that is the one thing that a lot of people do because they have the fear factor, which I did.
[35:43.3]
I have to admit, I think in business, too, it's so easy to get sidetracked because you don't have a boss or somebody telling you to stay focused. How do you decide if something is a great idea or a shiny object? It's hard. Yeah. I think that's a good question. There's been other ideas.
[36:00.2]
People who know me well. I've come up with some really good ones over the years. For example, which I never got off the ground. And why didn't I get it off the ground? I didn't have the right partners. I didn't ask. I didn't have the right partners.
[36:16.1]
And then I got asked to go work someplace. Yep. One of the ideas. Loneliness is a massive issue in this world. Sure. Right. Massive. I mean, it's like an epidemic. So one of the things I wanted to launch was to have, an online chat for people just to talk to each other on topics.
[36:40.7]
So it was all Set up. I love that. But it's real people. It's not the bots. And one of the reasons. So to your point, I abandoned that one. Is because how to manage bots, to get into a platform, it's almost impossible at this point.
[36:56.0]
You'd have to. So it's a good idea. And it was solving something that needs to be solved. But to your point, abandoned. How do you know? You just have to do the research. I do research. And then when you come up and you see the challenge, and if you can't overcome that challenge like a bottle, you just have to move on.
[37:20.1]
I think you hit it on the head, though, because we are. I still think there's something there, and I still think you can speak with a tech person about how to identify the bots. And the reason I say that is because I use a vpn.
[37:36.0]
Virtual private network when I'm on the Internet. And Ticketmaster will not let me in on my vpn. And there are some sites that won't let you in, but if you switch the VPN that you're using, it will let you in. But I've never gotten around Ticketmaster.
[37:51.1]
So now I'm on a quest to just once get around with a VPN just for fun. But you hit it on the head because we're pack animals. We need other people. We're not meant to be out on our own. So to create a social app of some sort where it's just people talking and getting to know each other, I think there's a market for it.
[38:15.2]
I think there's a big market for it. I think there is a market for it. But again, here we go. If I start in on going back to the business plan, the financial, having to do an MVP launch, the mvp, it's year.
[38:32.2]
I need a team of people to go do that. I mean, I have all. Anyone's out there. I have all the information and, and support it. But, you have to really say to yourself, that's a huge amount of time. You know, I've already done it for other companies many, many times.
[38:48.6]
And for myself, it's just. It's ma. It's big. I mean, all these people who make all this money on their own ideas that they're building on technology. I give them a lot of credit. And they're always so young because they don't have any other responsibilities other than doing that, 18 hours a day.
[39:06.7]
That's why there's so many young people. They don't have the same. We all have other responsibilities and interests now. So, It's a good point. Yeah. That is why, I just read in the Wall street journal the CEOs are being replaced by young people.
[39:22.2]
I don't know if that's smart personally, but, you have, you have to have the experience under your belt at this point. Well, sure. You hiring me, you have 42 years experience across so many industries. I'm going to be able analyze it quickly.
[39:39.1]
Versus hiring somebody who just doesn't have the experience every day of the week. Now, I'm sure this is going to offend somebody, but I don't want to hear from a 25 year old life coach. Correct. Talk to me. I have nothing that I want to hear. Correct.
[39:55.4]
And there are a number of business people and we deal a lot in real estate. And there are a number of people that are in real estate that started in 2015 who think they're geniuses. No, you were in an up market. Now you're starting to learn because the down market has been the last 12 to 18 months.
[40:13.3]
And I still think it's gonna get a little bit worse. Now we'll see how smart you are. And how much was it was just the market made up for your mistakes. Well, we all know luck plays a little bit of a low. I mean, there's no question. You just have to be prepared for when the luck shows up. Yes, absolutely.
[40:28.8]
That's what it is. Yep. Yep. Yeah, you gotta be ready when the luck shows up. Better be ready. And I see on your website you've got, a few masterminds that you lead them. Yes. So Mike and I are in a number of them. So I just want to bring that up because we think they're super valuable.
[40:46.8]
So I want to get your take, Zach. Thank you. I'm, so involved in this conversation that I didn't mean I should have brought that up. We investigate our guests before we talk to them. You're not winging it. Masterminds are absolutely amazing. Yes. Okay. They.
[41:09.4]
I only wish I had been in them, in my 30s and 40s. I'm with you. I'm, with you too. There's small groups, everyone, eight to 10 people max. And they're all there to make you better. If you're owning a business, if you're in a job, if you're trying to grow, NDAs are signed.
[41:31.6]
There is no competition between. You have to. There's no comp. There's on the NDA you can't compete with the same clients or the same, kind of thing. And what the facilitator in this case, this is me. Make sure everybody stays in their lane. Everybody stays nice and we stay on topic.
[41:49.7]
Everyone gets a hot seat. That's what they're called for 10 to 15 minutes. They have one question and the group helps you answer it. It is way better. And don't, hiring Jocelyn for a one to one is very smart. But the group dynamic is really, really a great thing to grow.
[42:09.7]
So I would love to have people come. I've had one for CEO for women who are moving forward. We know that that's the fastest group, at least in the states that are launching new businesses. Yeah. Women think differently than men. 100%. They do.
[42:28.5]
So this is get out of your way, honey. Let us help you get out of your own way and let us help you grow. And then there's one even for men. Because sometimes everyone just wants to be with their own. I mean, you and just being able to talk about it. And as I mentioned, I love men working with them. Yep.
[42:47.2]
And then we have family business. But I can always create a mastermind, specific for whatever real estate. Real estate is a huge one. There's lots of coaches in real estate. Yep. As you know, how to communicate with their clients and that kind of a thing. Excellent.
[43:04.6]
But masterminds are great. They're, I mean, amazing. I spend about a hundred thousand dollars a year on masterminds. I could not agree with you more. They're a wonderful invention. The ones I'm in are a little bit larger. But. Oh, yeah. When I figure the cost of the mastermind, the travel time, because they generally will meet at least twice a year.
[43:27.0]
And I don't want to miss an in person, Oh, you go twice a year. Ours is every other week. No, no, we have weekly calls, but we go in person. Yeah. I see. Yes, yes. That's a part of it where everybody gets together. Oh, yeah.
[43:42.7]
And that's where the magic happens. There's so much. It's funny, I always say that what you need to do is you have to get in the room and then you need to get out of the room. And what I mean by that is you can get into the room where they're doing their education, they're talking and whatever the topic is.
[43:58.9]
And that's fine because you want to get into the right rooms, but the real connections happen outside the room, in the hallway, meeting for breakfast. Meeting for coffee, going for dinner, sitting down at the same table for lunch. That's when it really happens, because you're making the connection and.
[44:15.9]
Yeah, so get in the room and then get out of the room, because that's where the connections happen. And be held accountable. Absolutely. Absolutely. And be held accountable. So 100%. Yeah. If you're there and you're my digital marketing isn't working, and people give you amazing suggestions, well, you've got a couple weeks to make that happen, and you're going to have a partner to make sure that that happens.
[44:39.9]
Maybe all of it doesn't happen, but you gotta go do it. Yeah. That's the thing, I think being held accountable and the people in the group have to be willing to, tell you what you don't want to hear, because it's hard to see the frame when you're in the picture.
[44:56.2]
You need somebody who's on the outside that can shake you up a little bit and go, no, no, no, I'm not. I can appreciate your employees are gonna listen to that, but I'm not your employee. I have nothing to lose here. What I have to lose is not being honest with you. And I'm going to be honest. What you're telling me is not accurate. Correct.
[45:12.7]
And you it's not accurate. Let's push the garbage aside and let's talk about what the real issue is. And here it is. That is thousand percent correct. And I say that up front now with all my clients. You're going to hear stuff you don't want, and you cannot shoot the messenger.
[45:29.7]
Yeah, that's not fair. Have I been once or twice known to say something people don't want to hear and just let the. Let it fall where it may? Yes.
[45:43.4]
All right. I'm sorry, Zach. I didn't mean to cut you off. I just think too, you have to understand that the people that you're in the mastermind with are trying to help you. If somebody tells you something you don't want to hear, it's not because, you they have any negative intentions. Everybody's in there trying to. Trying to grow and trying to get better.
[46:00.7]
Correct? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Okay, so we're coming down to. We've been on this for about 48 minutes now. We know that you're busy. We appreciate you taking time. Any final words and how can people get a hold of you and everybody. Just so you the information will be in the show notes.
[46:18.8]
Okay. Well, what I do want to say, that I'm an all in type of person. And I think, back to the farm. Why am I all in? So I'm all in on this conversation. I'm all in on our friendship. Yep. I'm all in on making a great dinner.
[46:34.5]
And, you all in, in person and in business, I think is a really good motto that I have adhered to. I'm not perfect and I make mistakes. Yep. But I am all in. And you can get.
[46:52.0]
You can find me at, Infocider Road and Cider Road has two R's in the middle. Okay. That's the way it worked out. Yep. Okay. All right. And looking forward to another conversation with you gentlemen.
[47:07.4]
I hope someday. Well, I tell you, Lois and I try and make it to the city once a year. Oh, good. We have not scheduled it yet for 26. We'd like to come in the spring or the fall. This year we have. We're booked for the spring, so I'm thinking in the fall, the four of us.
[47:24.4]
And if we can get Zach to get out of the woods and come down, we would definitely love to spend some time with you. Absolutely. And I'm in Greenwich, so that's not even on your way. Ish. Yeah. You're up the street, relatively speaking.
[47:39.5]
Happy to host. Okay, fantastic. I make a cake dinner. Well, awesome. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for coming on. This has been Great, everybody. Episode 21. And, read the show notes so you can get a hold of Jocelyn. Thank you.
[47:56.4]
Thank you so much,