Sam Primm, a self-made real estate investor out of St. Louis who scaled from flipping houses on the side to running a 40-employee operation spanning house flipping, property management, and education, joins Mike and Zach to unpack how he built and later had to rein in a multi-company real estate empire, including a costly hotel investment that cost him $20,000 a month for over a year. He also breaks down how he grew a 3.5 million-follower social media following by posting daily for six years straight, why he still edits and answers his own DMs to stay authentic, and how he structures leadership across his companies using COOs and weekly cross-team meetings.
Episode 29: From Massive Scale to Smarter Growth with Sam Primm
What happens when rapid growth stops being the goal and recurring profit becomes the priority? After building multiple real estate companies, scaling to dozens of employees, and owning a portfolio valued as high as $50 million, Sam Primm learned that more is not always better.
In this episode, Mike and Zach sit down with real estate investor and educator Sam Primm to unpack how a normal guy from Missouri built a large operation without inherited money or an entrepreneurial family. Sam shares how Rich Dad Poor Dad changed his view of money and how experienced partners shortened the learning curve.
We dig into the mistakes that came with scaling quickly, including an over-improved hotel that continues to lose money and a cost structure that grew faster than the business could sustain. Those lessons pushed Sam and his team toward stabilization, tighter financial reporting, fewer distractions, and business models with steadier recurring revenue.
One of our biggest takeaways is that delegation still requires structure. Each company has an operating leader, profit-based incentives, financial oversight, and regular meetings to review metrics and solve problems. Sam also explains how careful tenant screening and in-house maintenance helped make property management a lower-risk business.
You’ll also hear how Sam grew an audience of roughly 3.5 million followers by publishing every day for six years, why quantity must come before quality, how authenticity outperforms overproduction, and why consistent action matters more than trying to predict which post will succeed.
“Growth doesn’t always mean more companies, more people. It can mean more recurring revenue. It can just mean more profit.”
“You need quantity, then you need quality.”
“You just gotta be willing to fail for a while or not be seen.”
“The lesson learned is just post.”
Sam Primm is a real estate investor turned educator who remains actively involved in real estate through a group of operating companies spanning acquisitions, flipping, wholesaling, property management, education, and lending connections.
Sam’s flipping company buys and sells more than 250 houses a year. He has built a real estate portfolio valued as high as $50 million and currently owns approximately $40 million in real estate after strategically selling selected assets.
His businesses include Faster House, Midwest Property Group, and Faster Freedom. Together, they combine active real estate operations, management of hundreds of rental units, educational programs, and connections between borrowers and lending partners.
Sam has also built an audience of approximately 3.5 million followers across social media, where he shares practical lessons about real estate, debt, leverage, entrepreneurship, and business growth. His direct, consistent approach helps everyday people understand how to begin investing in real estate.
Find Sam Primm on Instagram, visit Faster Freedom, or email sam@fasterfreedom.com
For Investors & the Fund – Learn how the Fund works and book a call
For Borrowers & Deals – Get funding and support for your next investment
0:00
The thing that somebody told me when I started, if it's bad and nobody sees it,
0:04
that means nobody saw it.
0:05
>> That's right. Yes. Nobody saw it. Who cares?
0:08
>> That who cares thing is one side, but the other side is you posted it and
0:12
nobody saw it. That means nobody saw it. There's not these millions of people
0:14
looking at, hey, haha, that one sucked. Nobody saw it. So just like it wasn't
0:18
even it wasn't even real. It's in the ether. It's it's it's of no substance.
0:22
So just post again.
0:25
>> Most people think saving money is the answer. But the truth is, saving only
0:30
gets you to zero. Join Mike and Zach as they flip the script from saving to
0:35
earning. From zero to unlimited potential.
0:39
Welcome to Save to Zero.
0:43
>> All righty, here we go. Episode number 29 of the Save to Zero podcast. We're
0:48
happy to say that our guest today is Sam Prim out of Missouri. Uh Sam is a real
0:53
estate investor with uh he he they buy 250 houses a year. Uh I assume there's
1:00
some wholesaling involved in there as well. And he has a small social media
1:04
following of about 3.5 million and uh really excited to get some of
1:12
your time today. I know you're a busy guy and uh you know we want to dive
1:17
right in. So very quick, give us a little five minute in uh overview your
1:22
50,000 foot view and then we'll jump in.
1:25
>> Yeah, for sure. So my my story is not unique, but I think that that makes it
1:30
hopefully um palpable and relatable and usable. So I was just a normal dude or
1:36
silly am normal dude, but I grew up in like the Midwest of Missouri, right? I
1:39
didn't have entrepreneurial parents. My dad was an engineer. My mom was a
1:43
part-time teacher. Super frugal household. and I was planning to get a
1:46
job after college and work there for 40 years and retire 65 like my dad. That
1:52
was like my plan and I was happy with it. And then again very cliché if that's
1:56
a word I read uh Rich Dad Poor Dad uh about a year after I graduated and was
2:00
in the real world and started to understand assets, liabilities,
2:04
investing and society doesn't teach us about that. School sure as hell doesn't
2:08
teach us about that. So it was kind of an eye- openening experience. So then I
2:12
started invest real estate on the side with a buddy for a handful of years and
2:16
then we quit our jobs in 2018 and went all in. Um and yeah, now we're, you
2:21
know, s we got about 40 employees. Uh we, you know, flip and wholesale a
2:26
couple hundred houses a year as you mentioned. Um I am currently own about
2:30
40 million in real estate. I I was up to 50. We've sold some. Um but yeah, I'm
2:34
just all doing real estate all day, every day and and using leverage and
2:38
other people's money to do it. Um, and and the whole point of that story was I
2:42
didn't like inherent money from my parents. I didn't like, you know, join
2:45
their business. It was just something that that I learned and did along the
2:49
way and and saw the power of massive action with leverage and and that's
2:53
where we sit today.
2:55
>> That's fantastic. So, you didn't start with a business background yet. You're
3:00
running a very nicesiz uh real estate empire, if you will, real estate
3:05
portfolio. What is How did you learn to do this? Is
3:10
this something where you went to YouTube gurus or did you take formal training
3:14
with somebody who really was doing it and not just selling training?
3:17
>> A little mixture. So, a lot of it was trial and error. Uh, and then um kind of
3:22
mixed in with our we had a business partner. Lucas is my business partner.
3:26
Made my friend since middle school. Um, we before we quit our job, we were doing
3:31
about 40 deals a year. So, pretty good chunk. And then there was a gentleman
3:35
Brian who was about 20 years older than us who had an established company that
3:38
was doing about 100 deals a year. So that was kind of the catalyst helped me
3:41
quit my job is we decided to merge companies like we just kind of merge
3:44
companies a couple people and then you know kind of processes and resources and
3:48
he had been in business for 20 years. So, he kind of really taught me the
3:52
rules of the road as far as building a culture, having an accountability chart,
3:56
and it was kind of like a built-in mentor/ business partner for a while for
4:00
about three years, two and a half, three years, and then um he was kind of
4:04
wanting to wind down. We were wanting to crank up. So, we ended up, you know,
4:07
getting him out of his third that we had joined together in a couple different
4:10
things and then growing from there. So, it was one of those things where we, you
4:14
know, had somebody that kind of helped us along uh and helped us to kind of
4:18
learn the ropes as we were as we were growing.
4:21
>> Sure. Yeah, that's key. I think somebody who's been in there, you know, I you got
4:26
to do the work and I think the hack is to find somebody to teach you how to do
4:30
the work efficiently, but you still have to do the work. um these people that
4:35
think that you can, you know, take a weekend course and suddenly you're gonna
4:39
go out and buy a 100 unit apartment complex makes absolutely no sense. You
4:44
just can't. But yeah, having somebody who can show you how to lessen the
4:47
curve. That that that's great. What do you think is the biggest mistake you've
4:51
made along the way that really stung? You said, "Yeah, I'm not going to do
4:54
that again. That hurt."
4:57
>> How much time do you have, Michael? Um so I mean we made a few. Just the first
5:02
one that jumps out is um you know from 2021 to 2023 a lot of people bought
5:07
multifamilies and a lot of people are are feeling the the the issues the brain
5:11
and Turner losing the 15 million we I'm sure you knew other people it was uh
5:16
>> prime time rents rents were skyrocketing there were some available um apartment
5:21
complexes and then the rates were low and then everybody got on these
5:25
adjustable rate mortgages and so um we bought a few apartment complexes at that
5:29
time we bought three. Um they're like doing okay today. But our big mistake
5:34
was we bought a little mini hotel, a 20 unit hotel down in Branson, Missouri
5:39
that we bought and rehabbed and over rehabbed and all these things and and to
5:44
make a long story short, we we lose about 20 grand a month on that and have
5:47
been for about the past 15 to 18 months. So that's a big mistake. Not going to
5:51
buy any more hotels, not going to try to like go outside of our niche. Um but but
5:55
aside from that, just general mistakes, just learning and we scaled very
6:00
quickly. like we went from 10 to 50 employees relatively quickly and we kind
6:04
of grew and we grew and our revenue is growing and we grew expenses with it but
6:09
there's a certain point where revenue slows down in pretty much any business
6:12
unless you're like Nvidia or you know Amazon or something right and we we
6:17
weren't positioned or prepared to like have our reduction in revenue and we got
6:22
revenue and expenses basically at the same at the same number for a while so
6:26
then we had to learn to get our expenses down cuz we tried for the longest time.
6:30
Let's just make more money, make more money. And there's a certain point you
6:32
just your systems, the economy, your processes, your stupidity, whatever. You
6:37
just can't make endless amounts of money. And uh we did for a while during
6:42
the good times. And then we we learned that, you know, you can scale too
6:44
quickly. You can get your expenses a little bit over your skis and you need
6:48
to um have everything under control a little bit. So that's why we're down to
6:51
the 40 employees and that's why we're down to the 40 million, which are still
6:54
big numbers, but they're uh kind of redacted from what they were there for a
6:58
while. So going on that, what what's your goal then with the real estate, I
7:02
guess, for the foreseeable future? Do you want to kind of stay around that
7:05
size or keep growing, focus on your other businesses? What what do you got
7:09
going on?
7:10
>> Yeah, we're trying to figure that out cuz when everything was popping, man, we
7:13
were like, "All right, goal. We're going to bring an NBA team to St. Louis." You
7:17
know, everything go let's set big goals and do it. Let's own a hundred million
7:21
in Actually, at one point our goal is a billion in real estate. Um, I think our
7:25
goals right now is is more focused on like we were growing so fast and private
7:30
lender money coming in and out and and did multiple businesses and getting
7:34
accounting set up and and all these things that we really didn't know
7:38
exactly what we were doing every month. I mean, I knew we were making money and
7:41
I was, you know, taking owner draws and all these things and there was plenty of
7:44
money in the account, but we really didn't know. So, I think our goal and
7:47
we're doing it now is just stabilization and like smart steady growth with some
7:51
more some more like reoccurring type models, whether it be our property
7:54
management company, which I didn't even mention. Um, you know, that that's kind
7:57
of our our bread winner right now. And the margins aren't huge, but it's just
8:00
consistent stable income versus a house buying and flipping company that has $7
8:04
million out on the streets. The the the risk there or my education company when
8:09
you have all this fulfillment to handle and you need people to sign up and and
8:12
pay and you're getting one chunk at a time. So, we've kind of restructured a
8:15
lot of the businesses to sit and hope for more of that like kind of
8:18
reoccurring slow growth revenue. Um, but as far as like hard number goals, I
8:23
mean, yeah, I'd like I think 100 million eventually, whether that's, you know, 5
8:27
years or 30 years, I I think would be a a good goal. And then just good stable
8:32
businesses, which is a wild thing considering we were, you know, wanting
8:35
to to run the world there at one point.
8:37
>> So, you've got real estate, you got multif family, you're doing wholesaling,
8:42
you've got coaching. I believe you have a a lending company as well, right? And
8:47
you're doing flipping. Is that all under your like f I know it's all faster
8:52
something is the brand. Is it is that is that all the pieces? Are there more
8:56
pieces that I don't know about?
8:58
>> Well, yeah, those are the So, we got the uh Midwest Property Group, our property
9:01
management company. We manage our 200 units and about 500 units for other
9:06
people. So, that's that's becoming a pretty goodiz company. Then we have
9:10
Faster House, our flipping company that wholesales and flips. Um, and then we
9:14
have Faster Freedom, which is our our education arm. And that's the coaching,
9:17
the social media. And then the lending is underneath that. Cuz our lending
9:20
company, you guys know, it's just a we have several connections with hard money
9:23
lenders around the country and DSCR lenders. And um, it's not not my money.
9:28
I don't pretend it is. It's just me being a kind of a liaison and connecting
9:32
um, you know, getting some information on a borrower or a student and
9:35
connecting them with the right hard money lender and just kind of making
9:38
that connection. So, it's not really a lending company. It's more of like a
9:41
probably can't call us a brokerage, but kind of more of like that brokerage
9:44
model than anything.
9:45
>> Okay.
9:46
>> Gotcha. So, with all of these different verticals that you have going on, how do
9:52
you break that up within your company? Do you have a general manager or VP for
9:56
each one of those? How does that work?
9:59
>> Yeah. So, we we we call them the same thing, but COOs. Yeah. Uh COO. So we
10:04
have a each company has a COO over it that runs the show runs the day-to-day
10:08
and me and my business partner Lucas are kind of like the CEOs kind of like a you
10:12
know fractional CEO for each of them as well as kind of like the visionary side
10:16
of things and culture side of things and growth side of things and you know
10:20
balance sheet side as far as you know having our rentals to allowing us to
10:23
borrow money to you know flip more houses and we just kind of can stand
10:26
financially upon our shoulder. So, it's, you know, somebody running the
10:30
day-to-day, everybody reports to them, and then Luke's and I kind of overseeing
10:33
things and stepping in when necessary, cuz it's a lot. But, I mean, 40 people
10:38
and there's, you know, three major companies and and and a leader of each
10:41
of them, it flows pretty smoothly. So when you're looking for a leader in
10:48
one of those companies, the COO, I know that to me in the three companies I've
10:53
had, the most challenging part is finding the right person and putting
10:58
them in the right seat. How do you guys handle that? Because those are the three
11:02
big companies. I mean, that's that's some big stuff you got going on.
11:05
>> Yeah, they they Yeah. No, they are. Um, and the the how we've done it is for a
11:10
while it was, you know, me, Lucas, and our other business partner, Brian kind
11:13
of like manning all of these these seats, but we've been able to kind of
11:17
groom people to take over. And like Lucas, my business partner is like more
11:21
of that engineer type. So, he kind of was the more operational type. And as
11:25
we've grown, we've like had somebody that was like our leader of our flipping
11:30
company right now. He, you know, was in dispo for a while. He he came from the
11:34
corporate world, a high level job. he was dispo then he moved to sales manager
11:38
and then we promoted him. So kind of that promotion from within. They learn
11:42
the business they learn the culture and we learn them and how to manage them and
11:45
then kind of bring them up to that to that spot. So that that's kind of been
11:49
our mo and how we've done it.
11:52
>> Okay. For somebody else who might be looking to step away because I think
11:56
that's one of the hardest things as an entrepreneur. I know it's the thing that
11:59
I always have the most difficulty with. when you're stepping away and you're
12:04
giving them authority, are you giving them balance sheet control as well? And
12:10
next followup question to that is do you um give them some type of uh incentive
12:16
as in this is going to be your base pay and if we net this then you'll get this.
12:22
>> Yes, they all have a base with a um percentage of you know net profit um at
12:28
the end of every month that they're able to bring home as their incentive. Um,
12:32
that's kind of how we set it up. And then as far as like, you know, the
12:36
control over like the P&L and balance sheet, yeah, they have we we're so we
12:40
have a like a with all these transactions and all the stuff going on,
12:44
we have a we have about a fourperson accounting team. So, we were light on
12:48
accounting for a while and now we're kind of heavy, but I'd rather like have
12:51
up-to-date data and be heavy there and make sure everything's right. So, we
12:54
have a four-person accounting team and uh you know, we have the the leader of
12:59
that of the accounting our uh finance leader um sits in all of our like high
13:03
level meetings and and they're able to them and the COO kind of come together
13:08
with a plan, a P&L, and then we all meet and and kind of talk about it. So we we
13:13
have a structure to where every Monday morning, Lucas, my business partner,
13:16
myself, um the COOs and the the finance manager, we all meet and we all have
13:21
like metrics and numbers that we that we report and then we talk about any issues
13:25
and then that's where we all kind of collaborate together and and you know
13:29
collaboratively come up with stuff. The the leader of our flipping company, he's
13:33
aware of what our education company's doing. He's not the one making the
13:36
decision on the P&L, but he's giving feedback on what he sees are kind of
13:39
like a internal external point of view. So, it's kind of how we structure it.
13:43
>> That's pretty cool cuz not only yeah, do you have all the COOs together in this
13:47
meeting, but a lot of people treat their accounting department as just a cost and
13:51
they talk to them every quarter to get their reports or whatever, but I think
13:55
it's really smart that you bring them into those meetings and so they're up to
13:59
speed on what everything's going on too and then you guys all get to interact a
14:03
lot more.
14:04
>> Yeah. Know, it's almost like a little mini mastermind feel to it.
14:08
>> So, what made you get into the education space? curious.
14:12
>> So in like so I remember it pretty vividly. So and we have a local meetup
14:17
that the Brian our old business partner not to confuse the crap out of people
14:20
but that guy we partnered with for a while that older gentleman he had like a
14:23
local meet up here in St. Louis that was 150 people so decent size it's been
14:27
running for a few years and um you know when we partnered with him we kind of
14:31
helped him run it and then I remember in 2019 November 2019 Luke and I were the
14:36
speakers that month and we spoke about how we went from zero to 100 doors in 5
14:40
years and we kind of laid out the plan went over it and that night we like
14:44
couldn't we didn't leave till like 12:30 because there was people in line waiting
14:47
to ask us questions and then my uh my Facebook was like filled up with like
14:51
people DMing me and like what questions so then we're like all right Well,
14:54
there's some interest here. So, we started like posting on our personal
14:56
Facebook pages just like, hey, we're at this project doing this or we're doing
14:59
this and just kind of got the name out a little bit and it became like a thing.
15:03
So, I was like, all right, let's start like kind of a brand to post this a
15:06
little bit more. Let's make YouTube videos. My goal is to make YouTube
15:09
videos and make, you know, money off of those. Like, every YouTube video is a
15:12
rental. Make a couple hundred bucks a month. That was kind of my goal. And
15:15
then that ballooned into I should probably post on Instagram and and and
15:18
Tik Tok about this to get people to YouTube. And then that kind of blew up.
15:21
And then it was like people DMing me, hey, you seem real, you're authentic,
15:25
you kind of talk too quickly, you're kind of an idiot like me, like can you
15:28
teach me? So then I'm like, yeah. So then we created like a 10-week program
15:31
that we taught. So it just kind of has molded honestly via not going to say
15:35
like necessity, but like demand or like people's interest. And so it's kind of
15:39
just grown that way. And at some point, it's like, "All right, Lucas, I'm going
15:41
to focus on education. You focus on flipping. Let's divide and conquer. I
15:46
don't go to your flipping meetings. You'll go to my education meetings. We
15:48
trust each other enough that let's uh let's each have our own company that we
15:52
each own 50% of and let's just run them how we'd like to run them to give us
15:55
some autonomy and authority within our kind of vertical.
15:59
>> Okay. So the next question comes to mind when um Bill Bich is working on a game
16:07
plan. He has his game plan within his team and he's not going to tell the
16:12
Giants what his game plan is because he wants
16:16
to win. when you get when you have an education program uh education company,
16:22
you're educating your competitors. And I understand this abundance mentality, but
16:27
there's a reason Coca-Cola doesn't give out its formula.
16:32
How do you reconcile that? I've always been curious about that. People who are
16:35
active, now I understand the people that are just teaching and they're not
16:38
active. That I get, but you're active. You're doing a lot in real estate now.
16:43
You're doing a lot of education. How do you reconcile that? I think the biggest
16:47
thing I don't know if it's abundance of it is as much as it is mathematics. Um
16:51
the real estate industry is I I forget what the number it's something several
16:55
trillion. There's so much real estate out there. There's so much abundance
17:00
there. The the NFL to take that example is a closed box of 32 teams. Um this is
17:05
this would be like having 35,000 teams. Like there is just so much real estate
17:09
out there. I only buy in St. Louis to to kind of knock that out of the way. We
17:13
have students in all 50 states. Why would I not make money in someone in San
17:17
Bernardino, California, or somebody in Alaska or Hawaii that I'm never going to
17:20
compete with? Why wouldn't I monetize them and help them? And then we do have
17:24
people locally here in St. Louis. And most of the time we make money on them
17:28
because we sell them a house and then we manage their property for them. So like
17:32
it just all amplifies. Maybe there's a few deals a year that they steal from
17:35
us. Um but the net is way more positive on our end because we sell to them and
17:41
we're the biggest or one of the biggest home buyers in St. Louis. Half of our
17:44
deals were, you know, the second biggest home buyer or the same bigger than us,
17:48
whatever, the four or five that are similar size to us. Half our deals we
17:52
don't even go up against each other on. It's just such a large large industry
17:55
and such a a large number of dwellings of of value that they they're just the
18:01
hairs don't get crossed that much. Um, and again, there's the abundance side,
18:05
which you're right about, but it's also just like, you know, if I don't teach
18:08
and I only buy here in St. Louis, can I buy a few more houses, but I'm impacting
18:12
less and I'm have way less streams of income and I'm, you know, not
18:15
maximizing, you know, kind of the potential that we have.
18:19
>> Okay.
18:20
>> Well, if that was good enough for you, Michael.
18:21
>> No, that was fantastic, Sam. I appreciate it.
18:25
>> You can say Samuel. If if you do the first name, you can do the first name.
18:28
>> Hey, Samuel. So, tell me about the project property
18:32
management company. I understand that that's the thing that most real estate
18:36
investors have a challenge with because they have to manage the property manager
18:40
because the property managers aren't always managing the properties very
18:42
well. So what is it about that vertical that you
18:48
have that makes you able to do it? And the reason I I'm not sure that's a
18:53
proper question, but tell me about how that works because it would seem to me
18:57
property management is a brutal industry. Having to deal with all of the
19:02
tenants and all the laws and rules that go along with that. Uh and then having
19:06
to deal with the property owner as well wanted you to fix everything when they
19:10
just won't pay to fix, you know, no, it's time to replace the stove. We can't
19:13
fix it anymore.
19:14
>> So, how do you people deal with that? That's a tremendous amount of people
19:17
skill.
19:19
>> There is. And that company um has kind of grown organically because there's not
19:24
very many good property management companies out there as you mentioned. So
19:27
we managed for ourselves and got pretty good systems in place a lot from Brian
19:32
our former um our former um partner that he had you know a lot of rentals when we
19:36
met him and he had a really good property management in place. So we kind
19:39
of managed that way and got pretty good at managing single uh family rentals is
19:44
what we managed and apartments too I guess. So on the residential side and
19:48
it's can be a pain in the butt or it can be not too bad if you are very very
19:56
intentional with who you approve. There's no guarantees. But if you
19:59
approve someone that can fog a mirror and makes enough money, then yeah,
20:03
you're going to have issues. But if you have limitations, if you call their
20:06
previous landlords, if you, you know, check their records, criminal history,
20:10
look at their bank statements, if you have a massive process up front that
20:14
takes a little bit longer to get tenants to stay, it's not near as bad. Now,
20:18
there are issues, but the percentage of issues greatly go down. Like we, our
20:21
average tenant and our single family rental stays like four and a half years.
20:24
Wow.
20:25
>> So, like, we know we got to turn a couple turns a decade and it's just
20:29
because we spend so much time up front, which is what we learned from him, it's
20:32
almost obnoxious. But then we do get somebody that is appreciative to be
20:36
there that can pay that can afford it that is not a squeeze on them that
20:39
they're getting a good property that's recently rehabbed at least ours were
20:43
right. And then we started to everybody's like man it's for us because
20:47
we trust you guys. We got a pretty good brand and reputation here and most
20:51
property management companies don't. And so we there's some growing pains in that
20:54
but we're just getting properties thrown at us left and right. And it's it's a
20:58
good business model because in order for me to wholesale and flip few hundred
21:02
houses a year, I need5 to 7 million of my money or of like, you know, private
21:08
lender money or of, you know, bank money out on the streets. And, you know,
21:12
education, you got your brand, your reputation, your fulfillment. This is
21:15
it's we just we collect the money, we take our fee, we hold it, if there's a
21:20
repair under a certain amount, we redo it or we get with them, and then we give
21:23
them what's left over. So it's just more of a service-based business with
21:27
slightly lower margins but much less risk. So it just very systemized. There
21:31
are pain in the butts. We have a big thing that we have that separates us in
21:34
my opinion is we have um on staff maintenance. So we're able to monetize
21:39
that but also we control the maintenance. Um I think last week we had
21:43
like 200 work orders or something that we're able to get through with our
21:46
maintenance team. We have five like maverick trucks with tools that they go
21:50
out and you know they the techs come here and then they take our trucks out
21:54
um and we just can be pretty efficient and use like technology pretty good in
21:58
that business. So um the fact that we control the mates I think is a big part
22:01
of it and people maybe they give us a little more latitude and like trust us
22:05
and and um allow us to do things and don't like [ __ ] about it for lack of
22:09
better words because you know we kind of know them through other businesses or
22:12
whatever but it's not too bad. That being said, I haven't been to a property
22:16
management meeting in 18 months, so maybe it sucks. I don't know. But that's
22:19
passive business.
22:20
>> But who cares, right? If if they're handling I haven't talked to a tenant in
22:24
seven years. I
22:26
>> I want to switch gears and talk more about your social media because I know
22:29
that's kind of how Mike and I really got to know you and you talked about it a
22:34
little bit at the beginning, but yeah, you've got 3.4 million or 3.6 million
22:39
whatever it is followers across all these platforms. talk a little bit about
22:43
what it took to get there.
22:45
>> Yeah, it took a lot. So, as I said earlier, you know, started posting
22:48
personally in 19 then 20. Um, started posting in like mid to late 2020.
22:53
Obviously, great timing, right? That social media blew up, Tik Tok blew up
22:56
for everybody, everybody was sitting, you know, looking, you know, technology
23:00
a kind of caught up, smartphones were very, very prevalent and more than ever.
23:03
Um, you know, internet speed and then obviously people kind of sitting around.
23:06
It just was a perfect timing because social media really didn't hit the scene
23:10
until like 2012 13 like there was a little LinkedIn or like MySpace and but
23:15
like it it's not it's less than 15 years old. So, um, it was red, it was perfect
23:20
timing, collaboration of a lot of different things. But then it took me
23:24
and having that business partner or two business partners at the time kind of
23:27
run the other businesses and allowed me to kind of figure it out as I was
23:32
posting a lot. And I'm kind of um what you would call like a sociopath maybe.
23:36
And I just wanted to like continue to get better and better and better and
23:39
post every day. I posted every day since probably June of 2020. Um, every single
23:44
day on Tik Tok, Instagram, and Facebook. Um, and I just learned and trial by
23:49
trial by fire, trial by error as we've discussed in in in our conversations
23:52
about social media. It it took a lot of time, energy, and effort. But it's one
23:57
of those things where there's so much fake out there and there's so much now
24:00
AI slop that people appreciate just a person talking to them that does what
24:04
they say and says what they does they do and doesn't talk perfectly and is not a
24:09
news anchor style presenter and just is real and authentic. And that's just how
24:13
I am and who I am. And fortunately, luckily, I guess probably, um, that's
24:18
kind of what is, uh, desired these days via social media. So, I'm just one of
24:22
those things where I saw I saw the power in growing a brand even before was
24:25
making me money. Uh, like I don't think there's any there's no downside to
24:28
having eyeballs. Um, as long as I don't get in some kind of scandal, there's no
24:32
downside to having eyeballs and I can point them in a direction that can help
24:35
them and help me as it grows.
24:37
>> And and I think that's huge, right? So, you said you've posted every day for six
24:41
years, right, since June of 2020. six years every single day. That's what six
24:47
times like two 3,000 days in a row, whatever. Like people I know people
24:51
personally that
24:52
>> they want to get better at social media for their business, whatever. And
24:55
they'll post every day for 2 weeks and it doesn't work. And so they they give
24:59
up and they say, "Yeah, I'm done." I mean, Mike and I have been posting now
25:04
every day since last January. So it's been about a year and a half and it's
25:07
starting to work. But it it takes time. And I think you're a good example of the
25:12
fact that you got to just stick with it. You can't give up if it doesn't seem
25:17
like it's working. And you know, you talk a lot about it. These platforms
25:21
don't tell you how their algorithm works. So, you've got to figure out what
25:25
type of content you need to post. So, h how do you figure out like what types of
25:32
content is going to do well or what strategies to use?
25:36
>> Mostly looking back at kind of what I've done. So the the goal is you need
25:40
quantity then you need quality in my opinion. Everybody has their own take on
25:43
it and probably very few of them are wrong or right. But like my opinion you
25:48
need quality then quantity and you need to get enough out there to see what
25:51
you're good at. Maybe you're really good at posting carousels on Instagram like
25:55
the five to six seven eight slides. You got a good description. you create good
25:59
hooks and like you're not as good on camera, but you won't know that until
26:02
you probably post a 100 carousels and then or maybe you're just better at like
26:06
those 15secers with a quick hook or maybe you're better at like talking for
26:09
two minutes. You're like Alex Herozi or one of these people that is super
26:12
articulate and smart in multiple fields and can, you know, has that silver
26:15
tongue where they can just make things make sense. Um, and that's your your
26:19
niche. So, you're not you're not going to know that. Probably most people don't
26:22
unless they post it a lot. So the biggest thing is getting that quantity
26:25
out there and being okay with I mean I remember so many times going live in
26:30
front of eight people for 20 minutes for an hour going live in front of 15 people
26:35
and um you know just just learning and talking and saying the same thing over
26:38
and over again different angles different ways seeing what worked what
26:41
didn't work but when you get that quantity you get good and you get better
26:45
and then you just review like these these three videos have done really well
26:50
each time I've talked about this topic let's go back and re relook that or I've
26:54
talked I'm trying to get this point across, but I can't. Nobody watches
26:57
this, so I'm going to put a different topic out there. So, there's not it's
27:00
not super strategic, but it's just uh you just got to be willing to
27:04
>> to fail for a while or not be seen. That delayed gratification that that nobody
27:08
has that everybody needs that creates wealth, that's part of it with a
27:11
business, with uh growing a social media. I like how you said the quantity
27:15
first and that's something I've realized and Mike I imagine you too that when I
27:19
first started it took me forever to come up with an idea of what to post about. I
27:23
had no idea and then I would spend a couple hours on it and then post it and
27:27
then three people saw it. But then over time posting more and more and more it
27:32
got easier to come up with ideas to write a post and then yeah having
27:36
quantity there you then have data to work with. If you spend a whole week
27:40
writing one post and it doesn't do well, you're not going to be able to figure
27:43
anything out with that information.
27:47
>> Yeah, that's true. You got to got to post it. Just post it, man. And the
27:50
thing that somebody told me when I started, if it's bad and nobody sees it,
27:54
>> who cares?
27:54
>> That means nobody saw it, right? Hey, who cares? Nobody saw it.
27:57
>> For sure. Who cares? Like that who cares thing is one side, but the other side is
28:01
you posted it and nobody saw it. That means nobody saw it. There's not these
28:04
millions of people looking at, hey, haha, that one sucked. Right. Nobody
28:07
saw. So just like it wasn't even it it wasn't even real. It's in the ether.
28:11
It's it's it's of no substance. So just post again.
28:14
>> Yes.
28:15
>> It's funny. There are times where I've put out a post and I thought, "Okay,
28:20
that's a good one. That's good. This is money." And I get six people to look at
28:26
it and one thumb up. I'm like, "What are you people doing?"
28:29
This is something that's takes me
28:32
>> 15 seconds just off the cuff as I'm driving and I'll just whip something out
28:37
or at a red light. I've actually whipped out a whole post in a red light and I'll
28:41
get 400 people, a thousand people that look at it. I'm like, "What is wrong
28:45
with you people? This is good as the other one.
28:48
>> It's so frustrating."
28:49
>> The lesson the lesson learned is just post. The the I I've studied this like
28:54
crazy. The more editing, the worse it will do. So, just post. And then the
28:58
second side of that is there was a while when I would do a video bike and I would
29:02
think it was so good. I would like show my like friends and show people the
29:06
opposite and then I'd post it and every single time it bombed like I was like
29:10
literally the algorithm is listening, phone's listening or the universe is
29:14
listening and they're they're messing with me and like every time for like I'm
29:18
not kid like 50 times I would be like this is going to blow and it never did.
29:22
So then I stopped doing that obviously, but like I didn't have one video that I
29:25
thought was going to blow up blow up and I've had a couple hundred videos with a
29:29
million views. It's always the quick, the witty that just go with it and those
29:33
always do better.
29:34
>> Gotcha.
29:34
>> And what do you think in terms of posting? Like you hear different things
29:38
about mixing business and personal and some people try to have a really strict
29:42
formula for what you do. Like what's your strategy with that kind of thing?
29:47
>> I think it depends on your business and depends on how much you want people know
29:50
in your personal life. But like anything else, the more someone knows about you,
29:53
the more they can connect with you. And the more can they connect with you, the
29:56
more they care. The more they care, the more they'll watch. The more they watch,
29:59
probably the more they'll spend. So, it's one of those things where if
30:02
somebody just knows you um and doesn't know your family, um your kids, your
30:07
spouse, um you know, anything about your hobbies, that's fine. There's nothing
30:10
wrong with that. But they're not going to be as connected with you as if they
30:13
know I have I'm a girl dad of three girls, and you know, I I like to go down
30:17
to Florida a couple times a year for a vac. like they the more they know about
30:20
you, the more they're going to be invested in you. Like money, not even
30:23
just invested in in in your in your conversation. So that's why, you know,
30:28
they feel like somebody feels like they know somebody after they watch a movie.
30:31
That's why there's movie stars cuz they watch them for two hours. They feel like
30:34
they know them because they're invested in them as opposed to somebody that sees
30:37
a 10-second TikTok. They're not that invested. So it
30:40
>> it's funny. Obviously, I'm sure it's happened to you more than happened to
30:43
me, but it's happened twice that I can recall that it made me uncomfortable. I
30:48
was at a real estate event in uh Ohio and this guy walked right up to me. He's
30:54
like, "Hey, Mike, how you doing?" He's having a conversation with me. I'm like,
30:57
"Okay, I have absolutely no idea who you are." But he went through all my
31:02
Facebook. He had been following me and he felt like I was a buddy of his and we
31:05
were having like this personal conversation. He starts opening up,
31:08
telling me all this stuff like, "Okay, this is very awkward. I have no idea who
31:12
you are. I don't know what we're talking about, but okay, let's do it." And I
31:16
actually took a step back. And like, dude, personal space, you know?
31:20
>> Oh, yeah. They feel like they get to know you for sure. Like that when things
31:24
were really blowing up for me on social media, it happened quite often. And the
31:27
weird thing is like in like at like real estate focused things, yes, that's our
31:32
niches. But for me, the weird times are like at like Walgreens or at the gas
31:36
station, like you're out in public and somebody's like, "Hey." Um, but yeah,
31:40
you're right. They act like they feel like they know you. They are. They're
31:42
like very the hugs, handshake, like bro hug type of thing. It's like I don't
31:47
even know who you are. They're always like, "You're taller than I thought
31:49
you'd be." And I'm like, "Well, why were you even thinking about how tall I was?"
31:52
But anyways, it's it is a little bit weird. I can't imagine somebody just
31:55
actually famous what they have what they go through, but I guess they probably
31:57
get used to it.
31:58
>> It's the one to many is a perfect it's a perfect example of that. Like you do a
32:02
like one of the metrics I love looking at when I do a video is like how long
32:06
people have watched it. So you do a minute video and you find it's like 50
32:11
hours or something like that that people have spent watching it and it's amazing.
32:15
>> Yeah.
32:16
>> So now if you're if you've been doing this since 2006 as far as the posting
32:21
and you're doing it every day, what does your team look like? Are you still doing
32:24
this on your own or do you have a team behind you?
32:27
>> Yeah. So I know since 2020. Um you're you're good. Um so it's been an
32:33
iteration. So this is something I've also discovered. So, um, you know, I did
32:37
it all myself for a couple years. Um, for like 3 years, like didn't edit the
32:41
YouTube videos, but everything else I edited. And I'm not even like a great
32:44
editor, just on the app on the phone. I mean, this was for a while like Tik Tok
32:49
and they didn't have closed captioning, guys. So, like if I I wanted to close
32:52
caption everything. So, I'd literally type every word that I wrote. Oh, man.
32:55
>> And then like, so it took forever. Um, and it was differentiating me because
33:00
everybody did that and like you see it and can read it. But anyways, so I did
33:03
that for a long time. Um, that's good. But the issue is it's it's hard to
33:07
repeat that. It's hard to, hey, you now come up with ideas or you now come up
33:10
with editing when people got so used to what I was doing. People don't like
33:13
change, especially in like their people that they're following. They want the
33:17
consistent thing over and over again. Hey, don't talk sports. Don't talk
33:20
politics. I'm here for your real estate. People want you to be there for one
33:23
reason, right? Um, so that made a little bit difficult. I've I've had a few
33:28
different editors on staff, third party companies, uh, social media, um, people.
33:32
Right now it's just it's just me and one editor. Um, so I put out a lot of
33:36
content. I'm still very involved. He helps me a little bit, but I'm still
33:39
pretty involved because I'm not as involved in the other businesses. And I
33:42
think it's a differentiator for me. Everybody's using AI version of
33:45
themselves and AI slop and, you know, trying to just put out a bunch of stuff
33:49
and I'm still doing the same thing. And it's different. It's authentic and it's
33:53
a separator. So, uh, it's a lot of people say it's a waste of your time to
33:57
DM somebody back on Instagram or to edit your own video. That's fine. And I think
34:01
it's a good use of my time because I'm going to reach a lot more people. I'm
34:03
going to get that one to many multiplier much faster because I'm still involved.
34:07
And people can feel that. People can feel when you're reading a transcript
34:10
that somebody else wrote. Um, so people like considering I get 25 to 30 million
34:15
views a month, people assume I have a team of about 10 people helping me do
34:19
it, right? It's just me and another guy. So
34:21
>> I like that cuz that keeps it genuine.
34:23
>> You know, people know that the content coming out is you. It's you. Yeah. Like
34:28
that's your house or your office or whatever in the background. You're not
34:31
going to some studio or like people that want to post that they have a private
34:34
jet. So they rent a jet for an hour and they use it to make videos and you can
34:38
tell it's fake.
34:41
>> 100%.
34:43
>> Awesome. So how does your day look? I mean, I understand that you you're if
34:49
I'm understanding, you spend the majority of it doing the social media
34:53
and then your partner is working on the operations on the real estate side. Is
34:58
that correct?
34:59
>> Yes, for the most part.
35:00
>> So, how many hours a week you're working? How many hours a day?
35:03
>> Cuz I know for me I would ignore it's like, okay, when do I stop? Because I
35:07
could keep growing forever.
35:09
>> Well, I'm never I mean I I need to get I'm never really not working as far as
35:13
thinking, right? You guys are probably have that same disease that I have.
35:16
you're always thinking of something until your head hits the pillow and then
35:20
I'm out. But I probably I would say I probably work 60 to 70 hours a week. I
35:25
mean, I enjoy it. Um I enjoy the process. I enjoy uh you know, as much as
35:31
it sucks, the struggles, the downs, the ups, the, you know, trying to figure out
35:34
the team, trying to figure out the revenues down here. Let who, you know,
35:37
what how do we need to reposition this? Do we need to, you know, unfortunately,
35:40
you know, let some people go? Like how do we build this thing together? So I I
35:44
enjoy that. So most of my day is spent on the education side. So you know kind
35:49
of helping out. We have a higher level coaching program. So like kind of taking
35:52
care of those people. Um you know creating content, uh talking with
35:56
people, creating webinars, talking with marketing. So that's kind of my focus
36:00
daily. But uh I have check-ins kind of with with some of the other companies
36:04
just to kind of see what's going on. And I get the financial reports every
36:07
morning. But um it's kind of focused on growing the brand and monetizing revenue
36:13
uh through the different funnels that we have is is my biggest goal because the
36:17
educa all we have all these businesses and this may shock you guys. They've
36:21
never all hit at the same time. We've never been, you know, crushing property
36:24
management, crushing flipping and wholesaling, crushing education. It's
36:28
always kind of teetering a little bit. And maybe that's because we suck. Maybe
36:31
that's because that's how life works. Maybe it's because we're I don't think
36:34
we're spread too thin because I know people that do a lot more. But anyways,
36:38
um we're always I'm always kind of, you know, balancing those plates. I think
36:41
one day we'll get them all to hit and I you'll never hear from me again, you
36:44
know, but um I I uh it's just always always a struggle whether it's
36:48
self-induced or part of the journey. Um it's there's never a dull moment. So
36:51
there's always something to do whether it's, you know, a structured day or a
36:55
non-structured day, it seems to go by quickly.
36:58
Do you see any correlation between the amount of growth or whether one of the
37:04
companies is hitting and the amount of time you and or your partner have spent
37:08
on it in the last week or 30 days?
37:12
>> Probably especially the flipping business. So my partner um you know the
37:16
Ford business we didn't really mention is like the owner assets we call it like
37:19
our actual our our rentals that we own. That's kind of its own thing because you
37:23
refinance, you add more, you sell. you know, that's kind of a separate angle to
37:26
it. But he focused he's been focused on that a lot because, as I mentioned, we
37:30
bought some crappy deals. So, we've been trying to sell those and and, you know,
37:34
sell some other properties to pay off some, you know, some like private money
37:38
on a deal like the the hotel we bought. We paid off our private lenders, you
37:42
know, that was, you know, just getting rid of that bad debt. The goal is to pay
37:46
them off on sale or refinance, right? But we just kind of paid them off cash
37:49
via other assets we sold to get that debt off of it to make it a little bit
37:52
more swallowable every month. but he's been focusing on that and the flipping
37:55
company had a pretty rough start to the year and that's probably a correlation
37:58
to that. Now, education's been my biggest focus for 2021 to 2023. I made
38:04
more money in a month than I thought I'd ever make in a year and that come went
38:08
to a complete halt like most people has education space. So, that one I I've
38:12
always been involved in. So, I don't know if that's been lack of or more of
38:15
my involvement. I think that's more um just learning how to pivot through this
38:19
weird kind of space we're in as well as the trust recession we're in. But yeah,
38:23
I do think there was a correlation and that's why we we had a we had a
38:27
construction company. So we're like we're trying to vertically integrate so
38:30
that we can do construction for ourselves, we'll do construction for
38:33
you, we'll manage your properties, all this stuff, but we we recently dissolved
38:37
that because I think of the distraction and all those things. So we are learning
38:41
um to that kind of like uh scale down and and like growth doesn't always mean
38:45
more companies, more people. It can mean more recurring revenue. It can just mean
38:49
more profit. But uh we're we're we're scaling back a little bit to focus. So
38:53
now we kind of just have those main arms that we focus on.
38:56
>> So who is handling your construction now? Do you have subcontractors that you
39:00
have that work predominantly for you? Is that how it works?
39:04
>> Yeah. So we now we just went back to the project manager model. employee project
39:07
manager that manages. So for a while we had a few different project managers and
39:11
then in-house again in-house like construction crews. Um like not too many
39:15
like you know two two crews of three and that could do a lot of the work but then
39:19
like licensed work to other things we would hire out. So kind of grow that.
39:23
But just collecting from people that are, you know, paying you and then being
39:27
able to like for a while we're like this dude owes us 75 grand and we hired stuff
39:32
out and now we we owe somebody else 30 grand and like he hasn't paid us so we
39:36
don't want to pay them. We're not paying we're not going to fund their rehab
39:39
because they're not paying. It was just a mess. And the we need like three
39:43
full-time accounting people dealing with all the vendor payments and AP and AR.
39:46
So um that was just became too much of a beast for not enough overhead. um or for
39:51
not enough uh for not enough income. You know, we had to get three 400 grand in
39:55
new projects every single month to break even. So, anyways,
39:57
>> yeah,
39:58
>> not making much money and kind of a pain to manage. And now it's just the hey, we
40:02
got a project manager in our flipping company, a good a good flip. We're going
40:06
to roll to him and he's going to, you know, manage the subs and we're going to
40:09
get this thing rolling um out out the door that way. Much maybe slightly less
40:13
margins, but done quicker. And no, we don't have to foot the bill for them um
40:18
you know, until the project's done or whatever. we're not having to pay a
40:21
employee every week or whatever. So, it's a I think it's going to be We just
40:24
did it, but it'll be a good thing. And
40:26
>> that helps with the Is this diversification or is it a shiny object?
40:30
That's going to be like a distraction.
40:32
>> The the the the I think Yeah. the the construction was the goal was to be
40:36
diversification cuz we're I'm not we're like not like trying to start a
40:40
restaurant here, right? It's within real estate construction. It's pretty
40:42
vertical, but yes, it was probably a little bit of both.
40:45
>> Now, I'm curious. I don't know if you're aware, but I had a construction company
40:48
for 13 years, and we focused on property damage. We would fix between 250 and 300
40:54
houses a year. So, we had some volume going through there. And what we did was
41:00
we did have in-house guys, but a lot of it was project managers and working with
41:05
with subcontractors. when you're doing that and you've got a
41:10
project manager in charge, and I asked this because I just was on the phone
41:13
with somebody whose project manager totally uh tanked a couple of jobs,
41:19
>> how are you handling it from a accounting or an approval process in
41:24
order for he or she to get the go-ahad to do to do work? What we used to do is
41:30
we had an estimating program and they knew that it was supposed to be the goal
41:33
was 40% for the company, 60% for the repairs and we had an in-house job cost
41:40
accountant who would not allow any I'm sorry and then it would break down into
41:43
work orders and no work order could be more than 60% of the bid price of
41:49
whatever that task was. And she was the gatekeeper would not allow stuff to go
41:54
through and that's the way that we control things. How do how do you guys
41:58
control it?
41:58
>> You know, I don't really know how we do it. I know we have job tread is our is
42:02
our is our software that we use and I know there's like um there's certain
42:06
like thing there's like a certain price point that they can spend and then they
42:10
have to ask. But um I I just think we have from what I tell we just they just
42:14
you know have pretty con you know pretty transparent conversations multiple
42:18
meetings a week as well as you know just being on the horn all the time you know
42:21
going through those things. But I I don't I don't want to go too much in it
42:24
cuz I I just don't know the exact details of it. That's out out of my
42:27
jurisdiction. Mike,
42:29
>> sorry about that.
42:31
>> I was going to ask another question, but I'll stop.
42:33
>> I don't want to hurt you.
42:34
>> Nope.
42:36
>> That was as far as I could BS you.
42:40
>> Sounded good. I'm impressed.
42:43
>> Okay. Well, we know you're busy. We're running up on almost 45 minutes now. So,
42:49
um, wanted to thank you very much for coming on. I know it was an education
42:52
for us. We always want to learn more about social media because I know that's
42:55
something that we're working on with you as well on our own. Final parting words.
42:59
How can people get a hold of you? Your education program, your lending,
43:02
property management. What's a good way to get a hold of you?
43:05
>> Yeah, the best way to get a hold of me is, ironically enough, social media.
43:08
Just shoot me a message on Instagram. Like I said, I'm very involved. I'm the
43:11
one in the in the DMs. I've had setters in there before, but um surprises a lot
43:15
of people. I don't get thousands of DMs a day, even though I have a pretty good
43:18
following. I used to get a lot, but I I get enough that I can manage. So, um,
43:22
just shoot me a message on Instagram, Sam Prim or Sam Faster Freedom. Look it
43:25
up that way and we can chat. Yeah, we have a lot of ways we can we can work
43:28
together, but I'd prefer just to to chat with me a little bit on there, check out
43:32
my content, and if they want to learn more from what I do, I can I have a a
43:36
solution for them somewhere in my back pocket.
43:38
>> Awesome. Awesome, Sam. Fantastic. Thank you so much.
43:41
>> All right. Thanks, gentlemen.