Danielle Hollenbeck, founder of fractional CMO firm Privado, explains how founders can turn podcasts, social media, and authentic personal branding into qualified leads. She shares why consistency beats vanity metrics, why you must own your audience, and how to build a marketing team that is accountable for results.
Episode 27: Organic Marketing That Actually Creates Customers with Danielle Hollembaek
What if your biggest marketing numbers are the ones that matter least? A viral post may earn millions of views without creating a single customer, while a focused podcast, email list, or educational post can keep generating qualified leads for years.
In this episode, Mike and Zach sit down with Danielle Hollembaek, co-founder of Provato, to talk about building an organic marketing engine around trust, consistency, and measurable results. Danielle shares how she worked her way from radio DJ and video editor to marketing leadership, learning every seat along the way and gaining the empathy needed to lead strong creative teams.
We dig into why founders need a recognizable personal brand and how short-form content can introduce people to your work while podcasts, YouTube, and books build deeper trust. Danielle explains how a useful free resource can move an audience from rented social platforms to an email list you actually own.
One of our biggest takeaways is that vanity metrics do not equal revenue. The right 5,000 followers can be more valuable than millions of disconnected views. Real marketing performance comes down to qualified leads, booked calls, sales, and knowing which content moved someone through the pipeline.
You’ll also hear how Danielle kept an airport hospitality company profitable during COVID, recovered a disabled Facebook account, integrates business and family life, and plans to scale Provato through thoughtful hiring, clear culture, and a data-driven marketing audit.
“Every brand has to have a face now.”
“You need to own your list, which is all the emails and all of the numbers that you collect.”
“It’s not like you have to have a big following to get leads through your social media presence.”
“If you don’t want to work with me, we shouldn’t be working together.”
Danielle Hollembaek is the co-founder of Provato, a fractional CMO firm built for founders who have been burned by broken agency promises.
With over a decade of marketing experience, she has climbed from video editor to Chief Marketing Officer in less than five years by obsessing over one thing: results that actually move revenue. She has kept travel businesses profitable during COVID, scaled seven-figure companies to eight figures, and grown startups into six-figure companies.
Throughout her career, Danielle has generated thousands of qualified leads organically and trained teams to own their own marketing functions. Her experience across hands-on production, strategy, and leadership shapes an approach grounded in empathy for every role on a marketing team.
Today, she partners with founders to build predictable pipelines and prove every marketing dollar with data, not vanity metrics.
Find Danielle Hollembaek on Instagram and visit Provato
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[00:00 - 00:08] I wanna make sure that I have people who also feel that deep need to actually deliver results, and if we're not delivering results, then there's no long-term contracts.
[00:08 - 00:09] Everything's month to month.
[00:09 - 00:13] I'm never gonna make someone sign a six-month contract because marketing takes that long to work.
[00:13 - 00:15] I hate when agencies say that.
[00:15 - 00:25] Because if you don't wanna work with me, we shouldn't be working together because it's gonna be torture for me to have to give you all of these analytics and results and keep push, push, push
[00:25 - 00:28] when maybe we just aren't the right fit to work together.
[00:28 - 00:38] You know, that's, that's what I always am with every business is find the people in your circle, like attracts like, that you can get along with, that kinda can, you know, vibe with you.
[00:38 - 00:41] They can go with your flow of how you run your business.
[00:41 - 00:45] Because if you have those complementary businesses working together, that's when you have the biggest, best results.
[00:45 - 00:53] Most people think saving money is the answer, but the truth is, saving only gets you to zero.
[00:53 - 01:00] Join Mike and Zach as they flip the script from saving to earning, from zero to unlimited potential.
[01:00 - 01:04] Welcome to Save to Zero.
[01:04 - 01:10] Hi, welcome everybody to episode number 27 of the Save to Zero podcast.
[01:10 - 01:21] Mike and I are here with Danielle Hollenbeck, who is the founder of Privado, a fractional CMO company, and she has over a decade of marketing
[01:21 - 01:24] experience through various different businesses and, and different industries.
[01:24 - 01:27] So Danielle, thanks for, uh, coming on.
[01:27 - 01:29] Yeah, thanks for inviting me on, guys.
[01:29 - 01:30] I'm really excited for this.
[01:30 - 01:34] So tell us about the, uh, company that you've started.
[01:34 - 01:39] Tell us a little bit about Privado, and then we can kind of back up and s- see how you ended up there.
[01:39 - 01:43] Yeah, so Privado came about rather quickly.
[01:43 - 01:48] Um, so I have been in the CMO marketing world, like you said, for a decade.
[01:48 - 01:49] I've done a lot of different types of marketing.
[01:49 - 01:54] Um, and for the last five and a half years, I've sat in marketing leadership roles.
[01:54 - 02:04] Uh, and I've seen through those roles how a lot of the marketing leaders that I had throughout my whole career didn't really know
[02:04 - 02:11] marketing at every level because they didn't play every seat as they went up through the stages of marketing.
[02:11 - 02:12] So I started as video editor.
[02:12 - 02:16] I was a, I was a radio DJ, had to do a lot of ground roots- ...
[02:16 - 02:17] market myself.
[02:17 - 02:19] I had to learn how to talk on camera.
[02:19 - 02:21] I had to learn how to use a camera, edit.
[02:21 - 02:27] So I got, uh, into the nitty-gritty very quickly when I got into marketing, and then from that, you learn how to copyright.
[02:27 - 02:31] You learn how you have to script things because, I mean, truthfully, when you're a radio DJ, you do everything yourself.
[02:31 - 02:33] So I was, I was in the weeds of it.
[02:33 - 02:36] Um, and then from there I was like, "Okay, I like radio DJing.
[02:36 - 02:43] I wa-- DJ-ing, but I wanna move on and do more bigger marketing projects." That's when I got into social media and more of the digital marketing world.
[02:43 - 02:53] Um, and from there, got into the leadership positions that, uh, really led me to do fractional CMO work, um, because when I finally sat in the leadership role, uh, after
[02:53 - 03:04] making my way up through these startup companies for the most part is what I've worked for, I found that the compassion and the empathy and the understanding that I had for people who were doing
[03:04 - 03:06] the jobs below me was like- ...
[03:06 - 03:09] at a level that I never saw with my leaders- ...
[03:09 - 03:12] because I understood to edit a video- Yeah ...
[03:12 - 03:16] it can take this many hours, and it's this many issues that you can encounter.
[03:16 - 03:18] To build a website, it's not like an overnight thing.
[03:18 - 03:21] It's gonna take you a week to really get things together, especially before AI.
[03:21 - 03:23] It took a lot longer than that.
[03:23 - 03:23] Sure, yeah.
[03:23 - 03:23] True.
[03:23 - 03:26] So I understood, like, the journey that people go through.
[03:26 - 03:36] So, uh, a couple of weeks ago, I was talking with, um, actually my boss at Stillpoint Capital, Casey, and he was like, "You know, I know you have this passion
[03:36 - 03:38] for, uh, CMO work.
[03:38 - 03:48] You really like to help out companies and founders, and you've worked for so many founders and been able to assist them in marketing, not just on a, a branding, making things look pretty
[03:48 - 03:48] type end.
[03:48 - 03:58] You've actually generated leads for these founders who need it because they're a small team, and they have a lot of third parties that they're managing." And he said, "Why don't you use that expertise, and we'll go and we'll start
[03:58 - 04:08] a company that is fractional CMOs who also can set up your marketing team, train your marketing team." And our big sell is both
[04:08 - 04:12] Casey and I have been screwed over by marketing agencies in the past- ...
[04:12 - 04:16] that lost over $100,000 on ads that didn't work and didn't generate any business.
[04:16 - 04:26] So our big thing was let's make the money, uh, wi- for the founders because we ourselves are founders, and we know that pain about having leaders who aren't really marketing leaders who
[04:26 - 04:30] say they know what they're doing, but they're really not doing it.
[04:30 - 04:40] So using my expertise, uh, everything that Casey knows about scaling and growing businesses, we said, "Let's put our forces together and get Privado up and running." And technically, as of the date of this interview, we've been running for
[04:40 - 04:40] about a week.
[04:40 - 04:41] Awesome.
[04:41 - 04:45] And what kind of, what kind of businesses do you guys generally work with?
[04:45 - 04:48] Is it real estate or a specific industry or all over?
[04:48 - 04:52] Yeah, so real- We're not g- No, we're not generally just real estate, but we'll work with anyone who's a founder.
[04:52 - 05:03] I like the coaching industry because it's a very indust- a very, uh, big industry that I know I can help just from my past experience, what I've done, and also services that are, like, online
[05:03 - 05:08] businesses in general, like selling a product online, selling courses online.
[05:08 - 05:14] Um, so anyone who's really, uh, not like a restaurant or a local brick and mortar, we can help out.
[05:14 - 05:15] Cool.
[05:15 - 05:17] So let me ask.
[05:17 - 05:23] I know that you have a social media following, and I know we spoke previously about increasing that social media fo-
[05:23 - 05:23] Following.
[05:23 - 05:24] Mm-hmm.
[05:24 - 05:29] Because everybody, Danielle is only giving you a little piece- Yes ...
[05:29 - 05:29] of what's, okay?
[05:29 - 05:31] You're gonna be, uh, blown away.
[05:31 - 05:33] I think she's pretty dynamic.
[05:33 - 05:35] How many kids do you have so far?
[05:35 - 05:38] So I have four boys.
[05:38 - 05:39] They are six and under.
[05:39 - 05:42] And you have one on the w- uh, child on the way.
[05:42 - 05:43] Yes, I do.
[05:43 - 05:46] I'm 24 weeks pregnant with my first girl.
[05:46 - 05:48] And- Awesome ...
[05:48 - 05:50] you're also training for a half-marathon.
[05:50 - 05:55] Yeah, I actually ran the Pittsburgh Half at the beginning of May.
[05:55 - 05:56] Um- Nice ...
[05:56 - 05:58] but I have a seven-mile run coming up.
[05:58 - 06:03] I'll be 32 weeks pregnant, so I am still training for more races.
[06:03 - 06:03] Okay.
[06:03 - 06:04] That's awesome.
[06:04 - 06:06] So Danielle kept stuff in the box.
[06:06 - 06:08] I wanted to expand this a little bit.
[06:08 - 06:08] Yes.
[06:08 - 06:14] In addition to the fractional CMO work, is it SteelPoint Capital?
[06:14 - 06:15] Is that correct?
[06:15 - 06:23] Yeah, so SteelPoint Capital is how I got connected into this whole, uh, you know, basically making Privado, 'cause it connected me to Casey, who's the founder of that company.
[06:23 - 06:24] Right.
[06:24 - 06:30] And with that, you're raising millions of dollars of capital for a real estate business as well, correct?
[06:30 - 06:32] Yes, that's correct.
[06:32 - 06:32] Okay.
[06:32 - 06:42] So we invest in, uh, real estate, but then we also will invest in businesses as equity partners as well, which, uh, funnily enough, Privado, I am borrowing capital from SteelPoint
[06:42 - 06:47] Capital, so I'm using the resources that I also was marketing to get us money for, so full circle right there.
[06:47 - 06:49] That's amazing.
[06:49 - 06:49] That's great.
[06:49 - 06:56] So I wanna delve, jump a little bit into, because you're talking about marketing, your social media.
[06:56 - 06:57] Because I know that's- Yeah ...
[06:57 - 06:58] a big thing for you.
[06:58 - 07:00] Can you talk a little bit about that?
[07:00 - 07:08] 'Cause I know it's something that you and I discussed, that I think that that's an avenue for you to potentially explore because I think people feel overwhelmed.
[07:08 - 07:13] Uh, moms feel overwhelmed, dads feel overwhelmed, but you're doing all of these things.
[07:13 - 07:15] Can you talk a little bit about your social media presence?
[07:15 - 07:22] Yeah, so my social media presence, I started building back in 2016, right after I graduated college.
[07:22 - 07:28] Uh, and it started with just me posting about my day, 'cause I had all these, you know, random marketing gig things that I was doing.
[07:28 - 07:29] Mm-hmm.
[07:29 - 07:33] Uh, but then as I had kids, I started to see the need for...
[07:33 - 07:43] There's a lot of parents, and I'm not just saying moms, it's parents in general, who it's hard for you to balance exercise, your job, your children, your life,
[07:43 - 07:44] and it is overwhelming.
[07:44 - 07:54] So I try to use my platform to show people, hey, you can get up and you can schedule your day so that you can still stay fit, stay healthy, enjoy
[07:54 - 07:59] your children, have the job that you love, and, or build the company that you want.
[07:59 - 08:07] You just have to organize your day and make sure that you're, uh, putting that effort forward for what you actually want in life.
[08:07 - 08:17] So it's kinda like a motivational, uh, Instagram for moms and dads who maybe are feeling a little bit overwhelmed with everything they have going on, and it's really high-functioning parents who they
[08:17 - 08:19] do want more than just to be a parent.
[08:19 - 08:22] They don't, you know, you don't just wanna have a job.
[08:22 - 08:25] You wanna be able to integrate everything together in your life.
[08:25 - 08:29] And that's what I really like about your social media is it's very authentic.
[08:29 - 08:29] Mm-hmm.
[08:29 - 08:32] And that's what m- a lot of people talk about and tend to work well.
[08:32 - 08:42] I mean, you talk about all the stuff you have going on, all the different things you've got going on with your kids and business and everything, and I think, I think that's what resonates with a lot of people, where it's so easy
[08:42 - 08:47] to post everything being perfect on social media, and, and I don't, that's not what people wanna see.
[08:47 - 08:48] Oh, no.
[08:48 - 08:50] Nothing is perfect about my videos.
[08:50 - 08:51] I'll even have like- ...
[08:51 - 08:54] typos in the captions because I'll just post them so quick.
[08:54 - 09:01] Because it's about, hey, let's get the content out there because I wanna post a video at least, at least one a day is what I try to go for.
[09:01 - 09:06] And I love doing the day in the lives, the vlogs, where you're seeing what's actually going on in the day.
[09:06 - 09:07] Sometimes it's super boring.
[09:07 - 09:15] I mean, there's, like today, most of my day was calls, dropping kids off at my parents to watch them so I could do more calls and more work.
[09:15 - 09:18] Like, it was not, uh, the most fun thing ever.
[09:18 - 09:27] But it was cool, because I started the day out, and my, my kids are home on spring, or on summer break right now, so we were able to do a mile run together, have breakfast together, do a little bit of work.
[09:27 - 09:30] Before I had to get to work, they got to do some homework with me.
[09:30 - 09:40] So it's these little things where I think those little slices of life that you get to see of people show you it's not as hard as we think to do the work/life, I don't call it balance, I call it
[09:40 - 09:40] integration- Mm-hmm ...
[09:40 - 09:42] 'cause it's really not a balance ever.
[09:42 - 09:44] You never can find one or the other- That's true ...
[09:44 - 09:45] being completely aligned.
[09:45 - 09:45] Yeah.
[09:45 - 09:53] Um, but you can find ways to make sure that you're getting that life that you want, while also having children and having the job that you love.
[09:53 - 10:03] Well, I gotta tell you, I see some of your Instagram as well, and for those of us that don't have children, um, you make us feel very sad that we can't keep up
[10:03 - 10:04] with you.
[10:04 - 10:05] I'm just saying.
[10:05 - 10:08] That is a potential negative effect.
[10:08 - 10:09] Um- No, it's good for you.
[10:09 - 10:11] I didn't think about that, I'll be honest.
[10:11 - 10:15] Um, so let me understand.
[10:15 - 10:16] You're saying that you integrate.
[10:16 - 10:27] Can you give like a 50,000-foot overview of how you're integrating four children, one on the way, CMO, SteelPoint Capital, being married?
[10:27 - 10:28] How do you integrate?
[10:28 - 10:30] How do you schedule that in a day?
[10:30 - 10:32] I can't imagine what your schedule is like.
[10:32 - 10:42] So number one thing here is I have a very wonderful husband, who is very good with our children, and is r- r- really my right hand in every way, shape,
[10:42 - 10:43] and form.
[10:43 - 10:45] When I need something, I know he's got my back here.
[10:45 - 10:46] Um, so he is a pro-
[10:46 - 10:49] property manager of our properties we have here in the Quad Cities where I live.
[10:49 - 10:54] He has a much more flexible schedule than me, because not every day is having to be on meetings and things like that.
[10:54 - 11:05] So he watches the kids quite a bit, um, when I need him to, and we every night look at my schedule, his schedule, to see, hey, does he have to go meet with contractors?
[11:05 - 11:11] Is there something that, you know, he has to be at a, at one of the houses or something to actually be physically there while I have to watch the kids?
[11:11 - 11:14] And we'll see what pockets of time we actually can balance that.
[11:14 - 11:15] Um, so that's number one.
[11:15 - 11:18] Make sure you marry someone who's not a loser and they're gonna help you out.
[11:18 - 11:20] That's number one in life.
[11:20 - 11:21] Step one, don't marry a loser.
[11:21 - 11:21] Step one.
[11:21 - 11:22] There you go.
[11:22 - 11:24] Don't marry a loser, step one.
[11:24 - 11:29] Um, ste- step two is you're not gonna sleep much, and I'm gonna be very transparent.
[11:29 - 11:38] In fact, I posted on someone's Facebook today, it was someone from Family Mastermind, and they were asking, "Are you a night owl or a m- a morning person?" And I'm like, "I think I have to say-" Yes.
[11:38 - 11:38] "...
[11:38 - 11:41] I'm probably a both." Yeah, yes, yes is the answer.
[11:41 - 11:48] Uh, and part of that is you get used to not sleeping when you have children, because you're up a lot with them getting into bed.
[11:48 - 11:52] Cr- You know, when they're little, they're crying and you gotta come comfort them.
[11:52 - 11:56] So living off about five to six hours of sleep a night, uh, it's...
[11:56 - 12:00] I'm not gonna say it's healthy, but for this point of my life, that is where I am at with that.
[12:00 - 12:10] Um, and then I'd say number three is you just have to really want what you envision your life to be, and then you're going to do whatever it takes to get to that level, and I think that's n- that's, like,
[12:10 - 12:12] highest thing there is.
[12:12 - 12:18] If you really have a vision for your life and you are willing to not stop at anything to get there, you're gonna figure out how to get there.
[12:18 - 12:28] So let me understand what the vision is, because you've had a background that is varied, but it seems to all come together with the CMO, the
[12:28 - 12:31] CMO, uh, uh, or services that you're offering.
[12:31 - 12:35] So where do you see the CMO services going?
[12:35 - 12:39] Or are you gonna also focus on monetizing the social media as well?
[12:39 - 12:43] Yeah, so I think they can actually work hand-in-hand.
[12:43 - 12:53] So one reason why I was so excited about the Privado founding is I felt that with Stillpoint Capital, using my social media presence really didn't make much
[12:53 - 12:54] sense.
[12:54 - 13:02] Um, and even with, like, our coaching community, Stillpoint Foundry, I, I'm their marketing arm, but I, I just, I was not fully, like, a real estate coach.
[13:02 - 13:03] That just didn't make sense for me.
[13:03 - 13:09] So I think with the whole Privado, I'm taking my knowledge of what I know with marketing.
[13:09 - 13:17] I can integrate it with my life, which when you're doing any sort of advertising for your own business, people need to trust who you are, and they need to- Yeah ...
[13:17 - 13:23] like who you are before they even care about what your product is, because that, that's the way of the world.
[13:23 - 13:25] Every brand has to have a face now.
[13:25 - 13:32] I don't care what your brand is, what you're selling, you have to have someone who can talk about it on their own personal social media and really sell it to people.
[13:32 - 13:38] That's why we use influencer marketing, because we want to have that trust built before someone even lands on your website.
[13:38 - 13:48] So I think by people following me, which there are quite a few entrepreneurial parents that follow me already, since that was my niche, that can transfer over into
[13:48 - 13:49] the CMO services.
[13:49 - 13:52] And I my whole life have loved marketing.
[13:52 - 13:53] I've loved making videos.
[13:53 - 13:57] I was watching YouTube when it launched back in the early 2000s.
[13:57 - 14:04] I was in fourth grade, and I was, like, commenting on videos and trying to make my own little, like, anime music videos with Linkin Park playing in the back.
[14:04 - 14:06] I was such a nerd.
[14:06 - 14:08] Like, I mean, that's very embarrassing.
[14:08 - 14:11] I've never said this to anyone on, in, in, like, a...
[14:11 - 14:13] besides, like, the safe space of my house.
[14:13 - 14:14] So there you go, world.
[14:14 - 14:15] That's how nerdy I am.
[14:15 - 14:19] Um, but that really got me into video editing, and I was like, "Oh, this is cool.
[14:19 - 14:21] I love it." And I've always loved YouTube because of that.
[14:21 - 14:22] I grew up with it.
[14:22 - 14:27] Um, so I think the fractional CMO service is just really a natural progression.
[14:27 - 14:35] Um, I actually for five years had my own marketing agency as well, and I found out how terrible it is to run a full service agency from that experience.
[14:35 - 14:40] And then I was like, "Okay, well, what do I really like to do?" It's the strategy.
[14:40 - 14:48] It's the planning of the team and figuring out what parts can go together to really make your marketing function and that engine run.
[14:48 - 14:58] Um, and I have so many connections now just from being blessed to meet people like you guys in masterminds, where, um, I can connect you to the right marketers in your area
[14:58 - 15:08] or in what you need for your business, that we can really build your team and support you in whatever way possible without everything being on an internal marketing team that may
[15:08 - 15:18] work or may not work, which like I said, I've been in plenty of those situations where there's 10 people who work for an agency and they have 40 clients to serve, so they don't really serve anyone.
[15:18 - 15:19] Yeah.
[15:19 - 15:29] Yeah, I think that's the, the problem that a lot of people have with agencies that, yeah, they get you in the door, and then once they're, once you're in, it's like, "How can we do as little as possible to keep them?"
[15:29 - 15:30] Yes.
[15:30 - 15:31] And, you know, and, and...
[15:31 - 15:32] 'Cause every...
[15:32 - 15:35] You know, like, you get that fixed monthly fee every time.
[15:35 - 15:37] Exactly, 100%.
[15:37 - 15:47] So tell us a little bit about how with Privado you're going to, or what your goal is in terms of organic lead generation
[15:47 - 15:49] that actually converts to customers.
[15:49 - 15:54] Yeah, so organic lead generation is my, I'd say, bread and butter in marketing.
[15:54 - 16:01] Uh, I've ran ads before, but typically I will g- find people who can do that better than me, 'cause it is not my expertise.
[16:01 - 16:09] Uh, with organic lead generation, a lot of it comes down to the things I'm already doing on my own personal platform, what I've done for people I've worked for in the past, which is
[16:10 - 16:13] Building up your Instagram, your YouTube, and your podcast.
[16:13 - 16:23] For founders specifically, podcasts like the shows you guys have right here, if you don't, don't have a podcast and you're not running it, like, you have such a huge, huge gap
[16:23 - 16:27] that you are not filling for, uh, potential customers.
[16:27 - 16:29] Because even though your podcast, you know, even...
[16:29 - 16:31] You start out, you get a couple downloads an episode.
[16:31 - 16:39] If you start posting and posting and posting and build it up to a couple hundred episodes, I guarantee you, you're gonna be getting over 100 downloads every episode.
[16:39 - 16:42] Your YouTube's going to grow 'cause you're consistent.
[16:42 - 16:46] Most podcasters, they give up after 30 episodes.
[16:46 - 16:47] Yeah.
[16:47 - 16:57] And then their episode di- Like, their whole podcast just dies, and people forget about them because, "Hey, we liked you, but you don't have new episodes, so why do I keep coming back?" Same thing happens with YouTubers, people
[16:57 - 16:59] who are hot for a second on Instagram.
[16:59 - 17:04] You just lose the passion, and if you aren't consistent, like everything in business- Yeah ...
[17:04 - 17:05] it doesn't work.
[17:05 - 17:10] You have to have that consistency to build and build and build and get your lead system going.
[17:10 - 17:17] Um, with my previous job that I was CMO of, I mean, we got all of our leads to podcast, through the audio version and then through YouTube.
[17:17 - 17:17] Wow.
[17:17 - 17:27] And I mean, I'm talking, this was high-ticket coaching, 20K, and we would get at least five leads a week through the new podcast episodes, and then we'd also have about three to four from the old ones.
[17:27 - 17:32] And I'm talking, some of these were four years old, and people were still going back, still watching them, especially on YouTube.
[17:32 - 17:38] Because YouTube, if you have really good SEO on your videos, they're continuing to pop up again and again and again.
[17:38 - 17:40] Gotcha.
[17:40 - 17:45] Yeah, I think that's huge with podcasts because especially like you're saying, right, where people need to trust you.
[17:45 - 17:46] I mean, in a podcast- Yes ...
[17:46 - 17:53] you're spending 45 minutes, an hour, whatever, with, with your audience in their, in the, uh, when they listen to your episode.
[17:53 - 17:54] And- Yeah ...
[17:54 - 17:55] like, being consistent, too.
[17:55 - 18:05] There's a lot of times where I've found a new podcast that may be good, but they haven't come out with episodes in three years, and I'm not gonna go back and listen to all the old ones if it's not current.
[18:05 - 18:06] Yeah.
[18:06 - 18:08] Exactly.
[18:08 - 18:18] Well, and with marketing, for every hour someone listens to you or reads something from you, that equals usually $1,000 that they trust with
[18:18 - 18:18] you.
[18:18 - 18:20] That's kind of like the general of that.
[18:20 - 18:20] Yeah.
[18:20 - 18:20] Okay.
[18:20 - 18:30] So that's why podcasts are great, YouTube is great in longform, and also that's why people write books, is because if you consider how long it takes to read even a 100-page book- Yes.
[18:30 - 18:30] Yes ...
[18:30 - 18:32] you're getting some really good quality time with someone.
[18:32 - 18:42] And it w- I think books are one of the best ways because you actually have to physically read and function through your brain, like, what are the words on the page and what are they trying to say?
[18:42 - 18:42] Yeah.
[18:42 - 18:47] And a lot of times you're thinking more about what is being said, just like podcasts make you think more.
[18:47 - 18:49] When I watch an Instagram Short, it's fun.
[18:49 - 18:50] Like, you know- Yeah ...
[18:50 - 18:54] I'll go on my scroll where it's 20 minutes, and you look up, you know, food recipes or whatever.
[18:54 - 18:58] But do I remember all of these Instagram Shorts that I watch?
[18:58 - 18:58] No.
[18:58 - 19:01] There might be one that really stuck out, but it's, it...
[19:01 - 19:03] I am not, like, following that person just off of one Short.
[19:03 - 19:06] I have to be seeing them again and again and again- Yeah ...
[19:06 - 19:07] to follow them.
[19:07 - 19:10] And, and reading a book takes a, it's commitment from somebody.
[19:10 - 19:16] To actually sit down and spend hours reading a book is much easier than watching a bunch of Shorts where you don't have to even think.
[19:16 - 19:17] 100%.
[19:17 - 19:23] And I mean, even, like, podcasts, you know, I will do the dishes and wi- listen to my podcast, so it's not like I'm getting every word.
[19:23 - 19:23] Right.
[19:23 - 19:23] Yes.
[19:23 - 19:32] So I feel like it takes more podcast or YouTube videos than it does for a book, 'cause in a book, and I actually gotta look at those words, and I have to spend time with that person- Yeah, sure ...
[19:32 - 19:38] who wrote the book, I'm trusting them right off the bat 'cause I trusted you enough to even put the couple hours in to read it.
[19:38 - 19:39] Yeah.
[19:39 - 19:39] Great point.
[19:39 - 19:49] So let me ask, there's a lot of people that talk about Shorts, and you're not supposed to make your, your Instagram, what is it, more than 15 seconds because of the short attention
[19:49 - 19:50] span, et cetera.
[19:50 - 19:59] How do you migrate people over from those short dopamine hits to actually a 45-minute podcast or a couple hours- Great question ...
[19:59 - 20:01] reading, uh, your book?
[20:01 - 20:04] So there's a couple of ways to do that.
[20:04 - 20:09] One thing with the short Instagram content, you can do the 15-second videos.
[20:09 - 20:11] I think they're good for getting people to your page.
[20:11 - 20:18] But you definitely wanna still mix in the more 45 seconds to a minute that are your educational content, your personal content.
[20:18 - 20:28] Um, like I know, Mike, you do, do a lot of traveling, so I always see your videos where you're in cool places, and, like, I wanna see where you're at, so I'm gonna watch the video to see why is Mike at the beach again for the fourth time this month,
[20:28 - 20:28] you know?
[20:28 - 20:31] I need to know 'cause I'm living through you on those things.
[20:31 - 20:33] Uh, so I love that content.
[20:33 - 20:43] But that's how you build, uh, the audience to get people to your page and with those shorter, you know, eight seconds to 15-second videos, 'cause that's what Instagram likes to put on their recommended
[20:43 - 20:45] for you page- Mm-hmm.
[20:45 - 20:45] Yeah ...
[20:45 - 20:45] that they have.
[20:45 - 20:48] But have your longer form there, too, so people get to know you.
[20:48 - 20:58] But the best way to actually convert them to listen to a podcast, fill out your form, you know, to become a lead for your business, is give away some sort of freebie, um, whether it's a training,
[20:58 - 21:02] a PDF, uh, something that'll get them in the door.
[21:02 - 21:12] So after they watch a couple of Shorts, they'll see, oh, I'm gonna click in his stories, and in his stories, he's giving away this freebie about why 401ks suck and you should be investing in private, you
[21:12 - 21:13] know, in private notes.
[21:13 - 21:16] Whatever your business is, you know, whatever, whatever you wanna relate it to.
[21:16 - 21:16] Yeah.
[21:16 - 21:22] So definitely create a few ways for people to get more content from you because if you...
[21:22 - 21:27] Well, the main thing with everything marketing, you don't own these third-party platforms like Instagram- Yeah, that's true.
[21:27 - 21:28] Exactly, yeah ...
[21:28 - 21:29] or your podcast.
[21:29 - 21:33] Uh, y- you know, you really don't own your podcast 'cause it's going on things like all the podcast services-
[21:33 - 21:35] 'Cause that, uh, you know, it gets distributed out to.
[21:35 - 21:36] Yeah.
[21:36 - 21:39] You need to own your list, which is all the- Mm-hmm ...
[21:39 - 21:43] emails and all of the numbers that you collect, because you don't know what's gonna happen.
[21:43 - 21:49] Uh, last April, I lost my Facebook for a whole month, and I had to get a lawyer involved to get my Facebook back.
[21:49 - 21:49] Wow.
[21:49 - 21:59] That was terrible, because they told me I was never gonna get it back ever, and I was like, "You know how much money I'm gonna lose because I don't have it?" Um, and I've actually helped out now 12 people
[21:59 - 22:02] who have had that same thing happen to them with their business.
[22:02 - 22:09] So guys, this is not me just saying like, "Oh yeah, this happened to me, so it's gonna happen to everyone." No, it actually has happened to a lot of people.
[22:09 - 22:11] A lot of people we know in our circles, it has happened to.
[22:11 - 22:21] And it takes, even if it takes a couple weeks to get it back, that's a couple of weeks that you're not getting the leads that you were getting through Facebook Ads or Facebook organic, or if your Instagram's
[22:21 - 22:23] shut down, and it sucks.
[22:23 - 22:24] Like, you don't want that.
[22:24 - 22:26] Can, can you- So definitely own your list.
[22:26 - 22:28] Can you tell us a little bit about what happened there?
[22:28 - 22:29] 'Cause I've heard that happening- Yeah ...
[22:29 - 22:30] to other people.
[22:30 - 22:31] Like, yeah, what happened?
[22:31 - 22:32] How'd you get it back?
[22:32 - 22:35] Just 'cause if, you know, if anybody's listening and has run into this problem.
[22:35 - 22:36] Oh, yeah.
[22:36 - 22:38] If, if anyone is having this problem- ...
[22:38 - 22:45] reach out to me, because I will get you connected to the letter I had to send, the Reddit thread that walked me through all of the steps- ...
[22:45 - 22:46] and what I sent to my lawyer- Wow ...
[22:46 - 22:48] to make it happen.
[22:48 - 22:56] Um, so what happened with me is I was working for a financial education company, and we also did, uh, insurance sales, infinite banking, and I was running ads for us.
[22:56 - 22:58] I'd been running ads for us for four years.
[22:58 - 23:00] No problems at all.
[23:00 - 23:04] Never, ever had, uh, any language problems, 'cause I'd followed the compliance of Facebook.
[23:04 - 23:12] Well, Facebook updated their terms of service in April of 2020, uh, 5 for this specific industry.
[23:12 - 23:16] They were gonna have us have to declare that we are a credit or financial service.
[23:16 - 23:17] That's what it was.
[23:17 - 23:20] Um, Facebook changes a lot of rules with their ads all the time.
[23:20 - 23:21] Yeah.
[23:21 - 23:24] So I ran an ad that I had already ran before, and I was like, "Well, it got approved before.
[23:24 - 23:34] I'll probably be fine." Well, within a couple hours they said, "No, we're shutting down your ad account," which that happens pretty standard that you can get those up a lot quicker than you can get a page up.
[23:34 - 23:44] But then they told me, "We're also gonna shut down your whole personal Facebook that you've built up since you were, you know, 15 years old, and we're not gonna let you do this anymore." And
[23:44 - 23:46] I tried to contact them through, uh, Instagram.
[23:46 - 23:49] I'm meta verified, so I was like, "That's the first thing.
[23:49 - 23:51] I g- I'm connected with their support.
[23:51 - 23:55] It'll be easy." And they kept telling me, "Oh, there's nothing we can do, because it's a final decision." Mm-hmm.
[23:55 - 23:57] "They just ruled this." And I said, "Really?
[23:57 - 24:02] There's nothing you can do?" So because obviously I knew there was something you can do.
[24:02 - 24:02] Of course.
[24:02 - 24:05] Nothing's ever a final decision with technology stuff.
[24:05 - 24:11] Uh, I spent, like, four hours on Reddit looking for, "Has this happened to someone before?
[24:11 - 24:12] Who do I send a letter to?
[24:12 - 24:23] How do you actually contact Facebook?" Because I don't know, I've only got a call from Facebook twice, and it's because they really messed up, uh, with what they did on knocking down accounts
[24:23 - 24:23] that I was running.
[24:23 - 24:26] Um, usually you don't get a phone number.
[24:26 - 24:26] They have to call you.
[24:26 - 24:27] Yeah, they don't, you don't call them.
[24:27 - 24:28] They'll tell you to reach out to you.
[24:28 - 24:28] Yeah.
[24:28 - 24:29] Yeah, exactly.
[24:29 - 24:35] Um, so I got this letter that someone said they had sent, kind of the same situation to me.
[24:35 - 24:37] They ran an ad that got everything shut down for them.
[24:37 - 24:39] Um, and they were, like, in the credit space.
[24:39 - 24:40] So I was like, "Okay, this is pretty similar.
[24:40 - 24:45] Let me send this over to my lawyer." My lawyer happens to be my brother, so I just kinda told him exactly what ...
[24:45 - 24:47] exactly what to write on there.
[24:47 - 24:52] And he was like, "Okay, cool." Like, he's a real estate lawyer, and he does, like, family law and stuff.
[24:52 - 25:02] He's like, "That, this really isn't my space, but totally, I can handle this for you." So he took the form letter that the guy had posted on Reddit, made it into my own situation, gave him all the details that
[25:02 - 25:02] were running down.
[25:02 - 25:04] Um, and he actually...
[25:04 - 25:13] Oh, I, and then, and in this Reddit, they gave you the exact, uh, Facebook, like, offices to send it to, 'cause there's hundreds of different Facebook PO boxes and stuff- Okay ...
[25:13 - 25:14] you can send it to.
[25:14 - 25:18] So this specifically was the legal team for personal Facebook pages.
[25:18 - 25:21] Um, and gave that to him, sent the letter in.
[25:21 - 25:23] Uh, and once the letter hit...
[25:23 - 25:29] Oh, certified mail you had to send it through to make sure that they got it, because they'll say they lost it if not.
[25:29 - 25:37] Um, when they got the letter, he got an email from someone on their legal team that said, "Okay, we'll start working through this for you." And within four days of that email, I got my Facebook back.
[25:37 - 25:38] Wow.
[25:38 - 25:38] Wow.
[25:38 - 25:40] That's impressive.
[25:40 - 25:41] I know.
[25:41 - 25:46] It's interesting, and you used social media in order to save your social media.
[25:46 - 25:46] Yeah.
[25:46 - 25:48] I, uh, I, yes, absolutely.
[25:48 - 25:48] Think about that.
[25:48 - 25:49] Good point.
[25:49 - 25:49] Yeah, right.
[25:49 - 25:50] Yeah.
[25:50 - 25:51] Think about that.
[25:51 - 25:52] Yeah.
[25:52 - 25:56] You were on, you were on the inside, and you knew the gang signs in order to get back into the gang.
[25:56 - 25:57] What a hassle.
[25:57 - 25:57] Oh, exactly.
[25:57 - 25:58] Yeah.
[25:58 - 25:59] It was- Oh my God ...
[25:59 - 26:01] it was hours and hours of my life.
[26:01 - 26:03] Um, probably 20 hours altogether.
[26:03 - 26:09] I mean, I spent a lot of time trying to get this back, but it was so important, because I'd built so much up on Facebook.
[26:09 - 26:14] And I also knew, because my Facebook was connected to my Instagram, there was gonna be some effects on that.
[26:14 - 26:19] And I did have about six months even after that that my views and my engagement on my own Instagram- Oh ...
[26:19 - 26:22] were down, even after everything was reactivated.
[26:22 - 26:25] And I tried to fight with Facebook about that, and nothing happened.
[26:25 - 26:26] They, they didn't fix it.
[26:26 - 26:31] But eventually it fixed itself, so I'm thinking something happened with the algorithm or something.
[26:31 - 26:33] But there was no reason, 'cause I was posting the exact same content.
[26:33 - 26:35] There was no reason why it should've went down.
[26:35 - 26:36] Wow.
[26:36 - 26:38] So that raises two questions for me.
[26:38 - 26:46] One, has your brother started a side niche within his practice to get people back on Facebook whose pages have been shut down?
[26:46 - 26:53] So only people that I refer over to him, but he really should, because I feel like this is a business that is very needed.
[26:53 - 26:53] Oh.
[26:53 - 26:56] Yeah, and the couple people that I know that have had this happen to them, they-
[26:57 - 27:01] Just like, it's like your account goes into a black hole, and they have no idea what to do.
[27:01 - 27:01] Oh, yeah.
[27:01 - 27:03] You can't call anybody.
[27:03 - 27:03] You can't...
[27:03 - 27:05] Most lawyers don't know what to do.
[27:05 - 27:06] So yeah.
[27:06 - 27:06] Yeah.
[27:06 - 27:10] I think it's huge if somebody's actually been through this multiple times and gotten it resolved.
[27:10 - 27:11] I know.
[27:11 - 27:15] Well, and he's done it now for, like I said, there's about 12 people I've sent over to that, and they've gotten- Wow ...
[27:15 - 27:20] everyone has gotten their Facebook back because Facebook doesn't wanna deal with legal stuff.
[27:20 - 27:24] So as soon as they get an actual letter from a lawyer, they're done, and they're like, "Whatever.
[27:24 - 27:25] This is one account.
[27:25 - 27:33] We're just gonna reopen it." Well, I have somebody, when, when we're done with the show, I'm gonna refer you to him, and w- I'm gonna connect you guys together because- Yeah, do it ...
[27:33 - 27:34] he's been shut down.
[27:34 - 27:35] Oh, yeah.
[27:35 - 27:35] Yeah.
[27:35 - 27:35] I know who you're talking about.
[27:35 - 27:41] He's been shut down, and he paid somebody 10 grand to get him back on, and he's still not on, and it's been well over a year.
[27:41 - 27:41] It is not 10 grand.
[27:41 - 27:44] He, that's not what my brother will charge you.
[27:44 - 27:44] Do not worry.
[27:44 - 27:47] One letter does not cost 10 grand.
[27:47 - 27:51] Well, i- it's not, it's not his time.
[27:51 - 27:54] It's, it's, it's his skillset.
[27:54 - 27:54] You know what I mean?
[27:54 - 27:56] You don't hire a guy for- Nope ...
[27:56 - 27:58] you don't hire a carpenter for his hammer.
[27:58 - 28:00] You hire him for what he can do with his hammer.
[28:00 - 28:00] Yeah.
[28:00 - 28:02] So it might be worth the 10 grand.
[28:02 - 28:03] The letter costs 10 bucks.
[28:03 - 28:06] Knowing what to put in the letter costs 9,995.
[28:06 - 28:08] Yeah, exactly.
[28:08 - 28:08] There you go.
[28:08 - 28:11] Excellent point, Zach.
[28:11 - 28:12] That is true.
[28:12 - 28:22] So going back to your social media, I know that I sometimes have a, a brain hiccup, or I run into a wall as to what
[28:22 - 28:30] I should be posting, and I listen to a guy who doesn't know, but I have a professional crush on him, Alex Hormozi.
[28:30 - 28:32] He knows so much.
[28:32 - 28:32] Oh, yeah.
[28:32 - 28:41] And he is just so smart, and I'd love to just dump him upside down and get everything out of his brain because when it comes to social media and how to grow a business is unreal.
[28:41 - 28:51] And he says that there are three different types of, um, social media posts that you can have, and it can be, um, entertainment like MrBeast,
[28:51 - 29:01] it can be edutainment, or it can be straight education, and he focuses on straight education, and he said very simply because, "I like education, and I'm not
[29:01 - 29:10] looking to be entertained." And he, he talks about going deep down and just giving education, and I like his angle of stuff.
[29:10 - 29:13] What do you find i- in your social media?
[29:13 - 29:15] How do you organize it?
[29:15 - 29:16] Is it education?
[29:16 - 29:17] Is it edutainment?
[29:17 - 29:19] What, what are you focusing on?
[29:19 - 29:21] I usually do edutainment.
[29:21 - 29:31] That's why I like the vlog style, uh, type videos because I can have something that's a little bit visually interesting to watch, like going about my day, but on my voiceover, I can
[29:31 - 29:40] do some sort of educational, motivational something that's a little bit more of, "Hey, this is just what I did with my day," 'cause I'm not a lifestyle influencer.
[29:40 - 29:42] You know, that's really not what I am anymore.
[29:42 - 29:47] I really do want to help people out, so I would say that's where I kind of fall.
[29:47 - 29:55] But I've worked with plenty of clients who are in the education space who all they do is education, and that is what they do, and they've found that niche.
[29:55 - 29:57] Um, are you going to have viral videos?
[29:57 - 29:59] Probably not.
[29:59 - 30:05] Uh, you know, I love Alex Hormozi, um, but a lot of us are n- n- hardly any of us are ever gonna get to that level.
[30:05 - 30:05] Sure.
[30:05 - 30:07] Let's be honest, of your sort of reach and where he's at.
[30:07 - 30:08] Absolutely.
[30:08 - 30:13] Um, and he's done a lot of things through advertisements and figuring out how to run ads, too, to also boost his social presence.
[30:13 - 30:14] Yep.
[30:14 - 30:16] Um, so that's helped him out quite a bit.
[30:16 - 30:24] But yeah, the education space is hard if you're trying to go for the vanity metrics, which I always tell people throw them out the window 'cause what does it really matter?
[30:24 - 30:24] Yeah.
[30:24 - 30:30] I have one video that has 30 million views, and it's my son kissing a girl at the Cubs game on my Instagram.
[30:30 - 30:32] Is that gonna get me any leads ever for my business?
[30:32 - 30:33] I'm gonna say no.
[30:33 - 30:34] Probably never.
[30:34 - 30:35] It's gotten me people- Yeah ...
[30:35 - 30:37] who send me some free stuff, but that's about it.
[30:37 - 30:39] That's all that's happened from it.
[30:39 - 30:44] So it's like, it's not, it's not anything that we need to have out there, but it's fun.
[30:44 - 30:46] You know, it was a little slice of life.
[30:46 - 30:47] We love going to Cubs games.
[30:47 - 30:48] He was doing something funny.
[30:48 - 30:53] So that's one of those videos that gets people to, like, see your page, but it's just for your ego, basically.
[30:53 - 30:55] It's getting your vanity, vanity metrics up.
[30:55 - 31:03] I'm not saying having a big following is bad, but it's not like you have to have a big following to get leads through your social media presence.
[31:03 - 31:03] Yeah.
[31:03 - 31:03] For sure.
[31:03 - 31:05] It's more about engagement than raw views.
[31:05 - 31:15] 100%, and that's why I like education content because if you are asking the right questions in your video or saying things that'll intrigue people enough to start asking you questions in the comments-
[31:15 - 31:16] Sure ...
[31:16 - 31:19] it's a lot easier to get engagement that way.
[31:19 - 31:19] Yeah.
[31:19 - 31:25] I had heard that you can have, you know, if you have 10 million followers, it doesn't...
[31:25 - 31:34] You can make as much money or have as much, uh, positive feedback, business, et cetera, uh, from 5,000 followers if you have the right 5,000 followers.
[31:34 - 31:35] Um- Oh, yeah ...
[31:35 - 31:38] I know that we sat in on Sam's training outside of St.
[31:38 - 31:43] Louis, and he was saying he has 100,000 women from the Philippines that follow him.
[31:43 - 31:43] Yes.
[31:43 - 31:44] That's right.
[31:44 - 31:44] He can't do anything with that.
[31:44 - 31:46] It means nothing to him.
[31:46 - 31:47] Yeah.
[31:47 - 31:49] And he said he's no longer focused on the vanity.
[31:49 - 31:53] He's focused on the quality of the people that are following him.
[31:53 - 31:54] Yeah.
[31:54 - 31:54] Yeah.
[31:54 - 32:05] No, I think that, you know, Sam's a perfect example because he grew very fast through TikTok and Instagram, especially when those were, like, super hot with if you posted shorts, like, you got a lot of traction.
[32:05 - 32:05] Yeah.
[32:05 - 32:07] Um, and it shows that it was...
[32:07 - 32:12] It's easy if you have videos and you kind of find that format that goes well 'cause- Sure ...
[32:12 - 32:18] Sam has it down to, like, "Hey, I know what videos are gonna take off and what ones aren't." But are you attracting the right audience for your business?
[32:18 - 32:20] You know, I think at one time I know they got-
[32:20 - 32:28] him the right audience because it was just the algorithm, and also the state of people's purchasing power and what they were buying at that time.
[32:28 - 32:38] But now with the shift, I mean, we really gotta just niche back down to finding those customers who can pay for, if it's a coaching company, whatever your high-ticket coaching is that you're trying to sell, um, if it's
[32:38 - 32:41] investing, trying to get the right investors to our companies.
[32:41 - 32:46] Whatever it is, you've really just gotta find that niche and have your content be dialed in and focused for that.
[32:46 - 32:48] Yeah.
[32:48 - 32:48] Yeah.
[32:48 - 32:48] Okay.
[32:48 - 32:57] So you do this too, so, all right, so people listening, and I think I know what you're gonna say, but I wanna ask your opinion, will say, "All right, dial down into that niche," right?
[32:57 - 33:03] But then you also post a lot of personal stuff, and somebody could argue, well, that's not in the niche.
[33:03 - 33:09] So, like, how do you find the balance between posting business, educa- edutainment stuff, and personal stuff?
[33:09 - 33:16] So the balance for me is, uh, if I'm having a day where I'm with my kids all day, I'm gonna be posting all about that on stories.
[33:16 - 33:18] That's just how, how life goes right now.
[33:18 - 33:29] But I will plan out content that's going to be the educational content that I can post throughout the week, um, and kind of have my, like, Monday through Friday be a lot of the more educational, upfront
[33:29 - 33:36] type videos, and then a lot of times my weekend videos are more of my days in the life, some things like that, because that's when I'm with my kids.
[33:36 - 33:42] That's how it works for me, but I know that for other people that I've managed their Instagrams, some of them, they're...
[33:42 - 33:49] All they do for personal is stories, and then all of their actual feed posts are the education posts, which that can work.
[33:49 - 33:50] That's a good balance.
[33:50 - 33:50] You can make that work.
[33:50 - 33:54] Um, I also like to integrate my kids into some of the content.
[33:54 - 33:58] Like, I'll have a kid on my lap, uh, while I'm talking about something that's related to business.
[33:58 - 34:03] Not really anything to do with business that they're on my lap, but it does show, like, oh, she's a mom.
[34:03 - 34:03] Yeah.
[34:03 - 34:06] I can give you a little taste, like, this is what she has b- going on in her life.
[34:06 - 34:08] So I think there's way that...
[34:08 - 34:18] ways to incorporate your personal brand with your business pretty easily and seamlessly, um, because, like I said, once people get you for the education, they need to then find out who you actually are as
[34:18 - 34:25] a person to trust that they can use your service or, you know, invest with you, whatever it is.
[34:25 - 34:25] Yeah, that- Good ...
[34:25 - 34:27] goes back to authenticity to me.
[34:27 - 34:28] You know, your posts- 100%.
[34:28 - 34:32] Like you said, on the weekends, I do more personal stuff, so that's when I post my personal stuff.
[34:32 - 34:32] I love that.
[34:32 - 34:33] Yeah.
[34:33 - 34:40] So can you dive into me, or dive in for me a little bit into how it is...
[34:40 - 34:44] I'm gonna switch gears on you totally here, so I'm gonna stretch your brain a little bit.
[34:44 - 34:46] How it is- I love it ...
[34:46 - 34:55] that during COVID, that you were able to have a travel business, help it to be profitable during COVID when nobody was traveling.
[34:55 - 34:56] How did that work?
[34:56 - 34:59] So the main reason- That sounds impossible.
[34:59 - 35:01] It does seem impossible, right?
[35:01 - 35:04] But there were still people traveling dur- during COVID.
[35:04 - 35:07] That is, like, the little-known secret because I would be on planes.
[35:07 - 35:07] Yeah, there you go.
[35:07 - 35:09] I would be on planes, and I...
[35:09 - 35:11] There was one plane where there were two people.
[35:11 - 35:15] It was me and then someone else, and I was still traveling for my travel company.
[35:15 - 35:20] What our company was is suites in airports, so these little...
[35:20 - 35:21] They're called Minute Suites.
[35:21 - 35:22] They're these little, s- like- Yeah ...
[35:22 - 35:24] suites that have five, six...
[35:24 - 35:26] I'm sure, yeah, Mike, you travel enough.
[35:26 - 35:26] Absolutely.
[35:26 - 35:28] I'm sure you've seen them in airports.
[35:28 - 35:33] Um, and they are, like, little rooms that you can go and be by yourself.
[35:33 - 35:38] So before COVID, we already, uh, had all this marketing about how clean our suites were.
[35:38 - 35:47] Doctors were what founded this company because they knew how important sleep was, and they knew how important clean areas in the airport were for people traveling.
[35:47 - 35:49] So even before COVID- Sometimes that's hard to find in an airport ...
[35:49 - 35:49] we were traveling a lot.
[35:49 - 35:50] Exactly.
[35:50 - 35:55] So, uh, what I did during that time is I got with all of the airports that we were in.
[35:55 - 36:04] At that time, we were in six airports, and I said, "Can we put signage around the airport to tell people we are the clean and serene place for you to go during your layover- Clean and serene ...
[36:04 - 36:05] that you won't...
[36:05 - 36:06] be out.
[36:06 - 36:09] Yes, that you will be out of the general public.
[36:09 - 36:17] And the airports were more than happy because they had everyone freaking out when they landed in airports about, "Oh, should I even sit down in a chair because I don't know if they have COVID or not." Yeah.
[36:17 - 36:19] So we were full.
[36:19 - 36:22] We were full in our airports that we were allowed to be open in and functioning in.
[36:22 - 36:32] Um, and then after the fact, when people started to pick up travel a little bit more, you know, about a year after COVID, things started to pick up, people were still scared of COVID and scared of germs.
[36:32 - 36:39] So we were still picking up business and expanding our company when we really shouldn't have been because, you know, everything shut down.
[36:39 - 36:43] But we were just in the right niche, had the right marketing beforehand and after the fact.
[36:43 - 36:47] I remember the crisis communication the day that everything shut down.
[36:47 - 36:54] I was on the phone at 9:00 at night with our founders being like, "Okay, what are we doing here?" And I had just gotten that job three months prior, so I was like, "I'm screwed.
[36:54 - 36:55] They're calling me- Yeah ...
[36:55 - 36:56] because I'm getting fired right now." Sometimes.
[36:56 - 36:56] Yeah.
[36:56 - 36:58] Exactly.
[36:58 - 37:00] No, but they ke- they kept me on.
[37:00 - 37:06] I was very happy 'cause I had just had my first son at that point, and I'm like, "I need this job." Oh, man.
[37:06 - 37:07] So it worked out very well.
[37:07 - 37:15] But yeah, that's how we did it, and I mean, at that point, I was a one-person marketing team, too, like, with that company, 'cause they had never had a marketer in that place before.
[37:15 - 37:25] So I was just hustling to be like, "Okay, what can we do to at least break even at these locations, um, so we can keep people having jobs and keep people afloat?" Sure.
[37:25 - 37:35] I gotta tell you, as a person who's a frequent traveler, I think that we have the, the, the s- the lowest incidence of getting sick, and this is
[37:35 - 37:39] why: because we see so many people and the gross things that they do- Yeah, true ...
[37:39 - 37:42] we know how to predict that it's about to happen.
[37:42 - 37:43] I can't tell you how many times-
[37:44 - 37:49] I've seen men get out of the, a stall and just go, and then they go get something to eat.
[37:49 - 37:51] And I'm like, "Dude-" Oh.
[37:51 - 37:51] "...
[37:51 - 37:52] wash your hands." Yeah.
[37:52 - 37:52] Yeah.
[37:52 - 38:00] "What are you doing?" So, oh yeah, I, I don't get colds very often, and I think it's because I travel so much, and I see what other people do.
[38:00 - 38:00] And I- ...
[38:00 - 38:02] I don't wanna be around them to begin with.
[38:02 - 38:03] It had nothing to do with COVID.
[38:03 - 38:04] Yeah.
[38:04 - 38:05] And it's, you know, six feet.
[38:05 - 38:12] And it's funny, I don't care what you think about Donald Trump, but I remember him saying 15 or 20 years ago the same darn thing.
[38:12 - 38:17] He said he does not like to shake hands because he's seen men go into the bathroom and not wash their hands.
[38:17 - 38:20] So I personally am very happy with the fist bump.
[38:20 - 38:25] I think that is the greatest invention of all time because then I just gotta wash right here.
[38:25 - 38:26] Yeah.
[38:26 - 38:29] I don't have to go wash my whole hand every time I touch somebody 'cause it's just over there.
[38:29 - 38:31] Oh, yeah.
[38:31 - 38:32] Oh, I don't want that.
[38:32 - 38:33] Oh, no, I'm all about the mini...
[38:33 - 38:36] And I'm not a germaphobic, but I've seen some of the things these people do.
[38:36 - 38:39] It's like, "Dude, I don't want you to shake my hand." Oh, yeah.
[38:39 - 38:40] Please don't.
[38:40 - 38:41] Please don't.
[38:41 - 38:44] So, so I'm gonna go back again to Pravato.
[38:44 - 38:46] How big do you see Pravato going?
[38:46 - 38:49] Because obviously you only have so many hours in the day.
[38:49 - 38:51] You've had so much going on as it is.
[38:51 - 38:51] Yeah, good point, right?
[38:51 - 38:52] Oh, yeah.
[38:52 - 38:52] Yeah.
[38:52 - 38:56] So I, with Pravato already, am looking for a directors operation.
[38:56 - 38:57] That's gonna be my first hire, um- Good for you ...
[38:57 - 39:00] because I know, I, yeah, I know myself very well.
[39:00 - 39:07] And I am very good at execution, I'm very good at vision, I'm very good at strategy and planning, but I love to delegate.
[39:07 - 39:18] I love to delegate after I do the startup and get things rooted, which is where fractional CMO work is great 'cause that is technically what we have to be good at, is running marketing teams and delegating
[39:18 - 39:18] that.
[39:18 - 39:28] But I need someone behind the scenes that is doing the organizing of all of our clients, making sure that all these third-party teams, or if it's an in-house team that we're training and
[39:28 - 39:30] we're running, are doing what they need to do.
[39:30 - 39:36] And I just know for my capacity, beyond a couple of clients, it's gonna be very hard for me to keep that up and also- Yeah ...
[39:36 - 39:40] still stay in that creative space and that strategy space that I need to sit in.
[39:40 - 39:41] So that is gonna be my first hire.
[39:41 - 39:52] Um, and then I'm planning by the end of the year, since I will have this baby in September, um, I wanna have one more fractional CMO also be brought on to the company to start taking over some clients as well.
[39:52 - 39:58] So slow build, but I do know just from working from st- at startups, you wanna hire before you know you need to hire- Absolutely ...
[39:58 - 40:03] because if you even get a couple of clients, uh, you can break your system pretty dang fast.
[40:03 - 40:03] Yeah.
[40:03 - 40:14] Uh, and I function on the, uh, EOS, the entrepreneur operated system, where it's all about hire before you think you need to, have your structure down, um,
[40:14 - 40:17] and make sure that you are hiring for culture, the right fit.
[40:17 - 40:27] Because I just know too many companies, as they build, you h- you start hiring people because yes, they might be very skilled at things, but their culture might not fit the culture that you need.
[40:27 - 40:27] And with something like this- Yeah ...
[40:27 - 40:30] we're really trying to disrupt the agency marketing world.
[40:30 - 40:40] And I don't just want people who have worked for agencies before and know that, "Okay, I can put in my 40 hours, and I just gotta make sure I click the right buttons to time this right, that I'm doing stuff for people, and I get paid."
[40:40 - 40:40] Yeah.
[40:40 - 40:42] No, no, no, I'm not looking for that.
[40:42 - 40:47] I'm looking for someone that actually is dedicated to these founders that, I mean, they're my friends.
[40:47 - 40:49] I, I, every, every one of my friends are a founder at this point.
[40:49 - 40:53] You know, you go to enough masterminds, all of my friends have companies.
[40:53 - 40:53] Yeah, that's true.
[40:53 - 40:57] I wanna make sure that we're serving them right because I'm not gonna screw over someone that I know.
[40:57 - 40:58] Like, that's just terrible.
[40:58 - 40:58] Yeah.
[40:58 - 41:00] I could never, ever imagine that.
[41:00 - 41:05] So I wanna make sure that I have people who also feel that deep need to actually deliver results.
[41:05 - 41:09] And if we're not delivering results, then there's no long-term contracts.
[41:09 - 41:10] Everything's month to month.
[41:10 - 41:12] I'm never gonna make someone sign- Yeah ...
[41:12 - 41:14] a six-month contract because marketing takes that long to work.
[41:14 - 41:16] I hate when agencies say that.
[41:16 - 41:26] Because if you don't wanna work with me, we shouldn't be working together because it's gonna be torture for me to have to give you all of these analytics and results and keep push, push, push
[41:26 - 41:28] when maybe we just aren't the right fit to work together.
[41:28 - 41:29] You know?
[41:29 - 41:29] Yeah.
[41:29 - 41:32] That, that's what I always am with every business- That's the truth ...
[41:32 - 41:39] is find the people in your circle, like attracts like, that you can get along with, that kinda can, you know, vibe with you.
[41:39 - 41:42] They can go with your flow of how you run your business.
[41:42 - 41:46] Because if you have those complementary businesses working together, that's when you have the biggest, best results.
[41:46 - 41:47] Absolutely.
[41:47 - 41:49] And culture-wise, you're absolutely right.
[41:49 - 41:54] You can teach somebody skills, but if they don't have the right culture and you can't get along with them, you can't teach that.
[41:54 - 41:55] You can't fix that.
[41:55 - 41:55] No.
[41:55 - 41:56] It doesn't work.
[41:56 - 41:58] I've tried, and trust me, it didn't work.
[41:58 - 42:01] And that's why I don't hire, don't hire on skill alone.
[42:01 - 42:04] Well, and what's your, like your strategy around hiring?
[42:04 - 42:06] Are you looking for somebody US-based?
[42:06 - 42:06] Like, you know- Good question ...
[42:06 - 42:09] people find VAs in South America, Philippines.
[42:09 - 42:11] Like, people approach it differently.
[42:11 - 42:18] Yeah, so I would say for the operations role and for, like, my next CMO role, it definitely will be US-based is what I want to go for.
[42:18 - 42:18] Okay.
[42:18 - 42:28] Um, some of the third parties, I have hired on so many really good VAs that are video editors and content producers that I still have in my network, that as I have more clients
[42:28 - 42:35] come on, those will be the people that I'm recommending that we use for your video editing, for your Instagram, YouTube, podcast, whatever that is.
[42:35 - 42:43] Um, and then I also know people from masterminds that are US-based that can help people out regionally, that maybe they have a studio you can go film at, and I can recommend.
[42:43 - 42:44] That's where you go film your videos- Love that ...
[42:44 - 42:46] if you don't wanna do it yourself.
[42:46 - 42:56] So I really wanna use the network of everyone that I know, both overseas and also here, to build this out and make sure that I can deliver the best results for
[42:56 - 42:57] every client.
[42:57 - 42:59] Because I've used these companies in the past.
[42:59 - 43:00] I trust them.
[43:00 - 43:01] I know they're good business owners.
[43:01 - 43:03] They're good at what they do.
[43:03 - 43:06] Um, so it's just using everything I've learned over the last decade
[43:07 - 43:14] And all the connections I've made to really make other people's businesses profitable and, you know, the, the best they can be on the marketing front.
[43:14 - 43:23] Can you give me or give us a 50,000-foot view of what it would look like with somebody who's working with, uh, you as a CMO?
[43:23 - 43:25] Like kind of- Yeah ...
[43:25 - 43:30] again, 50,000-foot view, you know, what it looks like coming in and how it would be going, uh, long term.
[43:30 - 43:31] Yeah.
[43:31 - 43:41] So if you're doing full services with us where we're your CMO, we're managing your marketing team, whether it's an internal team that you have, or you have third parties, uh, or you need to hire on some third parties,
[43:41 - 43:43] uh, what first happens is a marketing audit.
[43:43 - 43:46] So I go through everything that you have marketing-wise.
[43:46 - 43:48] Where are you putting marketing out right now?
[43:48 - 43:49] Is it all digital?
[43:49 - 43:50] Do you have print marketing going out?
[43:50 - 43:52] Do you have anything on TV, radio?
[43:52 - 43:55] 'Cause some companies, you know, they do do that as well.
[43:55 - 43:57] Uh, what do you have g- going, running for ads?
[43:57 - 43:58] What are your third parties?
[43:58 - 44:00] What does your in-house team look like?
[44:00 - 44:02] And we kind of just get the rundown of all that.
[44:02 - 44:08] Now from there, we also look into the KPIs, which, like, we're not looking into your views, how many people are liking your posts.
[44:08 - 44:16] No, we're looking into how many leads are actually being generated from all these marketing efforts that you wrote on this audit sheet that I give to you before we get on our first call.
[44:16 - 44:17] Yep.
[44:17 - 44:27] So after the marketing audit, and we've talked through for about an hour everything you have going on, everything that you want to see going on in your marketing, um, and kind of what your goals are within the next 90 days,
[44:27 - 44:34] 120 days, and then a year, uh, then I'll go through and see, okay, what can we logistically actually do for you?
[44:34 - 44:36] We'll see the full scope of the project.
[44:36 - 44:42] I'll deliver that to you, and depending on your different levels of how much marketing help you need, we have three different levels.
[44:42 - 44:51] Um, we can customize, "Hey, uh, here's our hiring plan if you need to hire on things like video editors, content posters, creators," whatever that is.
[44:51 - 44:58] Um, h- here's how we're gonna utilize your in-house team, and then here's the new marketing efforts that we're going to focus on.
[44:58 - 45:01] Here's the ones we're going to drop if you have a lot going on.
[45:01 - 45:04] And then from there we start executing the plan.
[45:04 - 45:05] This is all pretty quick.
[45:05 - 45:08] It's gonna happen within about a week that we have a plan- a scope plan for you.
[45:08 - 45:12] Once we figure out that scope, we'll set you up on our Slack channel.
[45:12 - 45:14] We'll be in constant communication with you.
[45:14 - 45:18] You'll get hours, uh, to meet with us every month as fractional CMOs.
[45:18 - 45:20] We can go to your leadership meetings if you want us in those.
[45:20 - 45:24] We can go to your quarterly meetings, your annual meetings, depending on what you need from us.
[45:24 - 45:33] Um, and we'll oversee every part of your marketing and deliver weekly to you a report of how many leads actually came in, how are they hitting your pipeline, uh, even looking at the sales end of it.
[45:33 - 45:37] So have they con- have they actually converted into booking a call?
[45:37 - 45:39] Have they converted into an actual sale?
[45:39 - 45:44] So we can see the full conversion cycle from what our efforts are, 'cause that's what this whole thing is about.
[45:44 - 45:46] We're proving it within your pipeline.
[45:46 - 45:56] Whatever your CRM is, uh, we wanna make sure that we actually have tracking set up so we know if that podcast that we're pushing out there got you three leads, we know what podcast episode that
[45:56 - 46:01] came from, what topic you were talking about, and should you make more content like that because that is what's working.
[46:01 - 46:02] So things like that.
[46:02 - 46:09] We're gonna dig actually super deep into the data to make sure your marketing efforts are being used to their best abilities.
[46:09 - 46:15] So is there a size co- is there a, a size company that you feel is your sweet spot?
[46:15 - 46:17] Will you work with somebody who has...
[46:17 - 46:21] who's just starting out, or do you want somebody who's already got a team in place?
[46:21 - 46:23] W- what work, what do you think is your sweet spot?
[46:23 - 46:26] So we wanna work with founders.
[46:26 - 46:28] You can be a solo entrepreneur founder, but you...
[46:28 - 46:39] What I am imagining will be best, even for, like, our lower levels, you need to make about $500,000 in revenue, uh, for the year, and I mean, there's plenty of founders who do that as
[46:39 - 46:42] basically a solo team or they'll have one or two people that are third parties that they hire on.
[46:42 - 46:43] Yeah.
[46:43 - 46:44] Um, and you have to have...
[46:44 - 46:54] You don't have to have a marketing team, but you most likely have some sort of third-party teams that are helping you do some of these efforts, um, that then we take over, we manage, and you don't have to do that anymore.
[46:54 - 47:04] You can focus on what actually matters as the founder of your company , which is scaling your business, finding those different outlets to bring more revenue in while you have a trusted marketing person,
[47:04 - 47:10] a leader, to tell you, "Hey, this is how marketing is supporting that vision you have." Gotcha.
[47:10 - 47:11] Got it.
[47:11 - 47:11] Okay.
[47:11 - 47:13] Wow.
[47:13 - 47:14] This is cool.
[47:14 - 47:15] Yes.
[47:15 - 47:17] I knew this was gonna be a fun call.
[47:17 - 47:18] Yes.
[47:18 - 47:18] Yes.
[47:18 - 47:23] Uh, I'm real glad that you were able to s- take some time out of your day, which is obviously very busy.
[47:23 - 47:24] Oh, hey.
[47:24 - 47:25] Thanks for having me on, guys.
[47:25 - 47:27] When Zach reached out- Yeah ...
[47:27 - 47:29] um, and you had already reached out, Mike, too, to say we gotta get on sometime.
[47:29 - 47:30] But I was like- Yeah ...
[47:30 - 47:32] "Oh, I gotta do it." Like, I love you, Zach.
[47:32 - 47:32] Thought it'd be on here.
[47:32 - 47:33] Yeah, you booked so quickly.
[47:33 - 47:33] It was great.
[47:33 - 47:36] Some people it's like a couple weeks go by, and I'm like, "Hey, you still interested?
[47:36 - 47:39] I sent it to you," and I think you booked it, like, immediately.
[47:39 - 47:40] Perfect timing.
[47:40 - 47:42] It was perfect timing for me.
[47:42 - 47:43] This was fantastic.
[47:43 - 47:46] So Danielle, we wanna be respectful of your time.
[47:46 - 47:47] We said about- Yeah ...
[47:47 - 47:47] 45 minutes.
[47:47 - 47:51] We're almost at 47 now, 'cause I'm keeping track of the data and the KPIs.
[47:51 - 47:54] Do it.
[47:54 - 47:55] That's what we need.
[47:55 - 48:00] If, if people wanna get ahold of you, um, what's, what's the best way to do that?
[48:00 - 48:01] Yeah.
[48:01 - 48:03] So you can follow me on Instagram.
[48:03 - 48:05] It's just Danielle Hollenbeck, my name.
[48:05 - 48:11] Um, and then we have our website, getprivado.com, if you wanna learn more about the business, and you can contact me right on there on our contact form.
[48:11 - 48:12] Awesome.
[48:12 - 48:12] Fantastic.
[48:12 - 48:13] We'll put that in the show notes.
[48:13 - 48:14] Yeah.
[48:14 - 48:15] Thanks for coming on, Danielle.
[48:15 - 48:17] Really appreciate it.
[48:17 - 48:17] Yeah.
[48:17 - 48:17] Thanks for the work, guys.
[48:17 - 48:18] This was cool.