Will Knox, known as the restaurant guy, shares how he went from aspiring actor to placing Spago and the Hard Rock Cafe in key locations and building his own gourmet hot dog brand to 11 units. In this episode, he breaks down what really makes a restaurant site and concept work, why poor execution kills more restaurants than lack of money, and how to scale a brand and set it up for a profitable exit.
Episode 38: Restaurant Sites and Scalable Concepts with Will Knox
Why do some restaurant ideas grow while others struggle despite good food, strong financing, or a recognizable name? Will Knox, known as The Restaurant Guy, explains how location, concept, execution, infrastructure, and hospitality work together to create a restaurant business that can last and scale.
Mike and Zach talk with Will about his unconventional path from acting and residential real estate into restaurant development. Finding the first Spago location for Wolfgang Puck led to early Hard Rock Cafe expansion work and a career helping operators select sites, negotiate deals, shape concepts, and build brands.
Will explains why a promising building is not automatically the right site. Operators must evaluate demographics, traffic patterns, parking, visibility, customer behavior, competition, and whether the concept is convenient or compelling enough to become a destination.
The conversation also explores what makes a concept scalable. Will recommends proving the model locally, opening additional locations within a manageable radius, developing leaders and systems, and building infrastructure before pursuing distant markets or rapid expansion.
Will also shares lessons from building his own multi-unit brand, World Links. His experience shows why passion and money are not enough without disciplined execution, experienced partners, profitable units, clear operations, and a concept that consistently delivers for customers.
“Let’s look at it from the moon and let’s look at it like it’s Google Earth.”
“At the end of the day, we’re all just customers.”
“The execution coupled with the passion to execute—I think those are the two elements that really make a difference.”
“You need to play tennis with people that are better than you are.”
Will Knox is a restaurant real estate and concept development consultant based in Ojai, California. Known as The Restaurant Guy, he advises forward-thinking operators on concept development, site selection, contract negotiation, strategic planning, branding, sales, and leasing.
Will entered the restaurant industry after locating and negotiating the first Spago restaurant for Wolfgang Puck. He later supported early Hard Rock Cafe development west of the Mississippi and worked with operators including Nancy Silverton, Suzanne Goin, Caroline Styne, Susan Feniger, Mary Sue Milliken, and Peter Morton.
Will also developed World Links, a gourmet hot dog and sausage concept that grew to 11 units through airports, franchising, special events, and strategic operating partnerships. That experience gives him an operator’s perspective on the financial, staffing, systems, and execution challenges behind expansion.
Through The Knox Company, Will combines commercial real estate services with concept consulting and a network of architects, branding professionals, marketers, and chefs. He also hosts the Mr. Restaurant podcast and continues helping restaurant owners refine concepts, choose sites, and build scalable businesses.
Learn more at TheKnoxCompany.com or email will@theknoxcompany.com.
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Will Knox (0:00)
You know, a lot of people say lack of money or capital, but if you're not able to execute, if you don't have a team that really knows what they're doing and has the passion, so the execution coupled with the passion to execute, I think, are the two elements that really make a difference. Give me the money otherwise. Because if you're doing it as a lark, it's not going to happen. And if if you don't really think things through on a daily basis and have a team that this person can operate the floor and this person can do the marketing and this person can handle the real estate or if you're that operator that has multiple disciplines, that's great. But you have got to have some knowledge and the ability to see through things and not just be a dilotant about it.
INTRO (voiceover) (0:00)
Most people think saving money is the answer, but the truth is saving only gets you to zero. Join Mike and Zach as they flip the script from saving to earning, from zero to unlimited potential. Welcome to Save to Zero.
Mike Seidl (1:08)
All right. Hello everybody. Thank you for tuning in to the Save to Zero podcast. We are on episode number 38. Believe it or not, we are cooking along. I know Joe Rogan is very concerned about it and we're coming after him. So, here we go, Joe. Today we have Will Knox on with us. Will is known as the restaurant guy. He's a restaurant, real estate, and concept development consultant who has worked with leading operators, helped place and developed not uh notable concept, restaurant concepts, and built his own multi-unit brand. He joins us to explain what makes a restaurant site, uh, a concept, a lease, and a brand work, and what separates a, uh, promising idea from a successful restaurant business. On top of that, Will has got a varied background. He can tell us, if you would, Will, how you got into it. And I know that when you and I initially met, you uh were in acting and you didn't want to just be a waiter. You wanted to go a little further than that. So, you get into real estate. So
Zach Richards (2:10)
that's very
Mike Seidl (2:12)
Yeah, exactly right. So Will, welcome to the show. Thank you very much for taking time out of your schedule to be with us. We appreciate it.
Will Knox (2:19)
Thank you. Thank you very much. You know, you were asking me how all this came about. And you know, here I am some years later, but I came to LA ostensibly to act and produce because I didn't want to wake up at 50 and say, why didn't I try that? And I was actually going down another path in 1973 when I graduated college. I was really set to go into diplomacy and Watergate happened and I didn't want to work for the administration and one thing led to another and always in the back of my head I was you know toying with the idea of being somewhat theatrical and dealing with theater and this that and the other which I had done a little bit in college. So I am from San Francisco originally and I headed back to LA where I had gone to school at accidental college and you know with this intent that you know either I'm going to get my SAG card and stay or I'm going to re-evaluate what I'm doing and this is when I'm now 26 years old. So I um really decided that after a 2 week gig as a bus boy between 10 1000 p.m. and 2:00 a.m. uh that was not for me and I wanted to do something else to kind of survive rather than waiting on tables. So I got my real estate license and then in in the 70s in in LA very hot residential market. So, I parked myself with a Beverly Hills real estate firm. And when I went to real estate school, the teacher said, "Look, if if you work 30 hours a week, you'll make enough money for yourself that you can go out and do your auditions and do all your other stuff." So, that's the kind of direction I went. And I stayed with that and was, you know, just fine and doing what I had to do and was, you know, acting and working at producing and this that and the other. But 1980 happened and that was the Iranian hostage crisis. So
Zach Richards (4:23)
Iran is not a new idea,
Will Knox (4:26)
right? Uh so in 1980 the interest rates went to 14%. I said now what am I going to do? I'm not married but you know no one's buying houses. What am I going to do? So, a gal I knew said, "Listen, I'm I'm working with a with a chef who I didn't know anything about other than he was working at a restaurant that I couldn't afford to go to, and that was called Mamean." So, she said, "Look, if you ever find a a restaurant space, let me know." So I did and I called her up and Wolf Gang Puck came in and that was his first restaurant Spago.
Zach Richards (5:07)
Wow.
Will Knox (5:08)
So that got me started thinking, wow, nobody's doing any restaurant oriented real estate. Maybe I should adjust myself and think about commercial real estate. So that's what refocused me uh in 1981. Uh and then in 1982, the Hard Rock Cafe came into LA. And I snapped my fingers and I said, 'You know, San Francisco could use one of these. And I didn't really know the owner of the Hard Rock Cafe, Peter Morton, but I just called him up cold. And I said, you know, I'm from San Francisco. Would you be interested in maybe opening up one of these in San Francisco? I think I could put a group together. You know, being who I was, a little bit of Moxy. So Noxy has Moxy. That's all I can tell you. So, my last name being Knox, but nonetheless, um, Peter says to me, he used an expletative that I'll just say, "F the money. I have all the money I need. Find me a location." So, I did four months later in San Francisco through a colleague and friend of mine. We found the Hard Rock Cafe in San Francisco. And then he started calling me more and more and getting me more involved with the early Hard Rock development. So I did all the early Hard Rock site development for West of the Mississippi because he and his partner split up the United States and his partner had east of the Mississippi and Peter Morton had west of the Mississippi. You know, one thing led to another. Four years later, I got married and I had my wedding reception at the original Morton's restaurant and I was very tight with Peter Morton who mentored me a lot in restaurant real estate and I learned a lot through you know these big boxes that were being done and then in 1992 I decided to do something on my own. and I did a quick service restaurant brand with a partner and we took the idea of a big big big restaurant and moved it down to like 175 ft to do a gourmet hot dog and sausage concept that we launched called World Links. So that was meant to be the Starbucks of hot dogs and gourmet sausages. So that's a whole another story unto itself. But I built that to 11 units through airports, through franchising, through a contract feeder that we uh got to know and associated with. And that in and of itself was a trajectory that then went downward because the corporate partner, the executive in charge, left the company to head up Dunkin Donuts. And ultimately, you know, the new group came in and said that was John's deal. That's not our deal. So our model just kind of collapsed and we were in eight airports at the time. So it was it was a bit of rock and roll and um you know since that time that was 2000 um you know I've been doing other restaurant deals and primarily working with some groups to help them develop their concepts and I was developing a bit of a reputation to do that. So I just head out and just set up you know the Knox company which ostensibly is restaurant real estate and concept development. So I have currently a a real estate license hung with Bergkshire Hathaway if I need to do transactional work. But if I'm doing a consulting gig where someone will come to me, you know, and say, "I want to start something. Can you help me build it?" You know, I have access to different people, whether it's architects or branding people or, you know, marketing people, etc., chefs, and and we'll build accordingly. And so I have more or less two hats. I have a real estate hat and I also have a concept development hat. So, there we go. Matter of fact, I'm getting a phone call right now from a guy who has two bagel concepts. He owns two two stores and he wants to blow this thing up. He really wants to grow it and develop it. So, how do I do that, Will? So, now I'm strategizing with him about that. So that's that's kind of my life in a nutshell.
Mike Seidl (9:26)
That is interesting, man. That's a lot to unpack. Yeah. So you were
Will Knox (9:31)
I've been very fortunate. Also, I I will tell you I've been very very fortunate uh that I've been able to work with very good this was primarily when my practice was, you know, focused in LA. I now live in Ohigh, California. Um, but my my practice really got me involved in the 80s particularly with a lot of young burgeoning chefs and conceptors and operators. And I was very fortunate to kind of ride into that that wave, you know, you know, with the Hard Rock and some other brands, you know, that were big in in LA. So, I've been very very lucky.
Mike Seidl (10:08)
Gotcha. So, when you got into this, it sounds like you were a little bit green in this concept. you you put one in place and then you thought, "Wait a minute, there's something here." What did you learn from a 50,000 ft view bringing a concept like Spago and Hard Rock Cafe, finding them spaces, etc. I mean, that's really highlevel stuff, especially
Will Knox (10:32)
experience. You you talk about a 50,000 foot view and I always tell a client if when we're looking at a site, let's look at it from the moon and let's look at it like it's Google Earth, you know, now it's Google Earth, you know, but the older days before tech and all that, you know, let's see if this site, if this is exactly the place you would want to be if you were looking at it from the moon down to Earth, is this where you want to park your Fanny?
Mike Seidl (10:51)
Yeah. Forget the like what the building looks like or anything, right? You're talking about even where is it just location.
Will Knox (11:09)
Exactly. And and actually this morning I was on with another fellow who, you know, has been calling me and he wants to open up this particular concept and he says, "Well, can I see this building?" And I said, "I'm happy to meet you at that building, but we'll sit outside and we'll talk because I don't know that this building is going to be the right building, the right fueway, if you will, for your concept." And you know, you got to get people to think a little bit differently as to well, I I love the building, but are the demographics is the traffic flow? Is the is are are there people walking in the area where you can sustain yourself? So, is there or is it a destination restaurant, which you know, if you live, you know, in an urban situation, everything's a destination. You got to get in your car or get on public transport or Uber or whatever. you know, I live in a small town, but you still have to drive to get, you know, where you want to go. So, in theory, everything's a destination unless you're in this downtown central core of three blocks that people are walking and this that and the other. And and that's a reason to be in the core, but it's also very competitive if you're in the central business district. So, yes, I I tend to look at it that way.
Mike Seidl (12:29)
That's fantastic. I know that when I sold my first business, uh, I had a friend and he wanted to get into business. So, we started looking at different things and you mentioned Dunkin Donuts earlier. We were in line to buy four existing uh, locations in Providence, Rhode Island, which at the time was their biggest market back in ' 989, Duncan's biggest market. And then um, we were going to open up a fifth store within the year. And I found it very interesting. and we end up not doing it. But I find it very interesting how they break it down and how scientific they are. For example, they say that if you have a you have to have a drive-thru because a drive-thru increases sales. And if you have a location where people have to cut across two lanes of traffic coming the other way, even though there may be a turn lane there, it will affect sales because people don't want to do that. And what I found really interesting as well was that they actually knew that you could have x number of Duncan within a mile of each other. And it was all based on the number of rooftops because they knew and I I don't remember the exact number so I'll use this for sake of example that the average Duncan driver won't drive more than 1.2 miles to get to one of their restaurants. And they were that scientific. When you're looking at a location for somebody, do you get that scientific? I mean, how do you decide what's appropriate for them and what isn't?
Will Knox (13:57)
Well, first of all, I did terribly in biology when I was in high school. Okay.
Mike Seidl (14:01)
Okay.
Will Knox (14:02)
So, I'm not scientific at all. I'm very very seat of the pants, very intuitive. It's come to me in a certain way. Just that's how it's evolved in my life. I'm not that kind of guy. I'm not a corporate mathematician. I could leave it to the big boys to have done that work and say, you know what? if it's good enough for Starbucks to be here because they have the day part, you know, up till 2:00 or whatever and you're a cafe and a bakery, you can work in this environment. But if you're, you know, a steakhouse and this is a different kind of it's it's not going to be the right local for you, let's say. Um, or there's something else redeeming. If you are a steakhouse, there's 30 car parking, so that's more redeeming. So I tend to look at really what the fundamentals are and you know you and Zach and myself we're the public. We're no different than the we're customers. So you look at things and I look at things pretty much in in in that regard. Yes. I have a a real estate background and I and I think as an operator as well and I've done both sides of the fence and there is a competitive advantage to that and there are some of my colleagues who don't have the operating background that I have. So I I look at things differently but at the end of the day we're all just customers. So would you go to this place you know Zach would you go to that place? Oh I love their cookies. I'll go across town for them. you know, okay, then you will cross two lanes. I I agree with that premise though. Making it difficult to get to a place is is is making it difficult, right? So, you want you're about convenience, you know, we're about service. We're about hospitality. We're about, you know, trying to, you know, get you in and get you out and and grow. That's that's the whole premise, you know. How do I how do I grow my business? And if I really want to scale it, how do I really, you know, work on one two three, you know, what am I doing right?
Zach Richards (16:13)
Y and wrong.
Mike Seidl (16:15)
Sure. Of course. So you I think bring a unique point of view to this because you're not only a uh only looking for site development and locations, but you have experience yourself having had the 11 locations and you said a couple of them several of them were in um airports, which I assume is a difficult gig to get because there'd be a lot of competition because you have a a captive audience. What do you see? What what is it that you're able to bring to the table when it comes to working with somebody who is looking for a a location? Do you think that that helps you because you have both hats that you've worn?
Will Knox (16:57)
Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, I I don't I don't ever say to somebody, well, you know, I have more advantage. I I don't play that game of playing one off against the other. This is my experience. This is who I am. I've been able to be in this and sustain myself for many years, probably too many, but nonetheless, um, I have an advantage having been one who created a concept from the ground up and also I've worked with those who have also created their concept from the ground up or they already had their concept and then they met me and they wanted to grow that concept. I have a client who's a very good friend as well. We become friendly over the years and that's one of the nice things about the business. If you can indeed become friendly with your clients, that's even better. That's kind of a a wonderful thing. But in this regard, this was a fellow I worked with in u Beverly Hills years ago. I sold his restaurant and I didn't know him and then I had uh moved to Ohigh which is about 75 miles north of Los Angeles and I knew this fellow wanted to do another concept. He had sold his restaurant and I knew the other concept that he wanted to do and I sat on him and his partner for a year to take this one spot. And I said, "God, if you could take this spot, you'd be the center of Ohigh town. And it turned out there was another spot that they looked at." It was totally different. It was like a what I would call a bee location on the outskirts of the city limits in a strip center versus a standalone building with a huge patio parking across the street right in the center of Ohio town. So you be the judge. Do you want to scale your concept and be a strip center, you know, concept where you grab and go and take your chicken and run or do you want to sit and have wine and have your chicken and make an experience and build? So I sat on these two guys for a year. Luckily this space stayed for a year and they ended up getting that space and taking that one instead of the strip center space. and he's now opening a second unit um in the town of Carpenteria, which is about uh half hour away from uh Ohigh on the water. And he wants to begin to scale this. So, you know, you you got to open up a couple of them to really know if you really have proof of concept, but we're pretty confident that he's going to do, you know, well with that. So ultimately the fact that I've been an operator and I've also been in the shoes of or can think for for the operator because I kind of know their limitations as well and the heartache. I mean there's the restaurant business is a very very very difficult business because people are fickle. Now, here I was, you know, years ago with the Hard Rock Cafe founder and he had another restaurant that was probably the the A-listister restaurant in Hollywood. It was called Morton's. Okay. Y and his offices were right across the street from this restaurant. And he would say to me constantly, he goes, "You know, they're coming to my restaurant now, but they'll go across the street to the next best thing when that opens up." So I always got to be on my toes and you know as an operator and you still by the way if you go into a Wolf Gang Puck Spago restaurant or other operation you could very well see Wolf working the floor. These guys who are good are constantly at it and it's a tough tough gig.
Zach Richards (21:05)
Interesting. What do you think is the or a couple of things the most common reason for failure in restaurants because I know that they have a very very high uh failure rate.
Will Knox (21:05)
I would say execution. You know a lot of people say lack of money or capital but if you're not able to execute if you don't have a team that really knows what they're doing and has the passion. Okay. So the execution coupled with the passion to execute I think are the two elements that really make a difference. uh give me the money otherwise because you know if you're doing it as a lark it's it's not going to happen. And if if you don't really think things through on a daily basis and have a team that this person can operate the floor and this person can do the marketing and this person can handle the real estate or if you're that operator that has multiple disciplines that's great but you have got to have some knowledge and the ability to see through things and not just be a dilotant about it. A lot of people think of it think of it as theater to a certain degree. Now, yeah, I've never really been associated with the Burger King world and the McDonald's world, but you know, here I was trying to scale my own hot dog and sausage world, but you know, that was that was in and of itself its own experience as a quick service operator. So my partner and I uh at the time we started this I had the restaurant real estate knowledge. He had systems in real estate knowledge but no food knowledge. No, I had the food knowledge. I had a little experience with all that. But we had the good sense to bring in people to help us who knew more than we did. And at the end of the day, you you need to play tennis with people that are better than you are.
Zach Richards (23:09)
Yeah. Of course.
Mike Seidl (23:11)
Of course. That's how you get better. Absolutely.
Zach Richards (23:13)
Right.
Will Knox (23:14)
So, but I do think that the downfall is the inability to execute.
Zach Richards (23:19)
So, I'm sure you've come across concepts that sound exciting, but actually, I'm guessing that weren't scalable. Is that true? And what makes it what makes a concept scalable and not scalable?
Will Knox (23:35)
Well, that's a good question. Uh, and I I would say that there's a certain I it's it's too broad to say ease of operation. You know, why can a Taco Bell be 2,000 units and another Taco operator can't get off the ground and he's got great food, let's say. Um, speaking of which, a taco fellow I came in contact with recently has one unit in Napa Valley, one unit in Ventura near me in Ohhigh and he wants to grow it. He wants to scale it. But here he is up, you know, 400 miles north and that's his home base. So where are you going to be and how are you going to scale it? You got to stay regional at first. you know, and and have a presence. And like I say, you open up number one, number two proves itself. Number three, you know, you could be 5,000 square ft and serve 180 people a day or at a turn, or you could be 500 square ft and serve coffee all day long. Well, what is it that allows the coffee guy or or the big guy to be able to scale it? I I think you do have to have some money invested in it. I mean, it it takes money to grow. I'm not going to lie to you. Okay. So, people come to me and say, "Can you help me find, you know, $2 million?" And I say, "Well, I'm not a rain maker." And if you had $25 million Ibida, earnings to the bottom line, earnings before taxes, then I would call an investment banking friend of mine, a private equity friend of mine who's in the food, loves food, and he'd say, "Oh, this is a winning concept. How does the bagel guy that I'm referring to who's showing very profitable units, two units, how does he grow and get three more? Well, I said to him, you have a guy who wants to buy one of your units, right? And he said, yeah, he's willing to buy it and I could still maintain the brand ownership where I'm the developer. I said, "Fine, then make him a franchisee of yours and use his money to grow three more units and suddenly you got five bagel units. Then you become a little bit more of a presence, but you have some financial backing and you have an operator who really knows what they're doing cuz you don't or you don't have this fellow actually has restaurant knowledge. What he's done over the years is he buys restaurants when they're kind of on the down and he refurbishes them and flips them just like a somebody would flip a house,
Mike Seidl (26:37)
you know, and and fix a house.
Will Knox (26:39)
So, in this particular case, yeah, equity has a lot to do with being able to scale it, but also the knowledge of, okay, what am I going to do after number two? How long am I going to take for number three? If you take too many on at one time, you're shooting yourself in the foot unless you've got an infrastructure. So, you got to build an infrastructure and that costs money. So, you got to have a director of operations. You got to have a regional. You know, if indeed, you know, you're going to blow it out. Now, I've got another client. I can't believe I'm talking about all these clients. I, you know, sounds like I'm actually important. So ultimately, you know, there there's a group that came to me and they had an idea for a particular I I can't be too specific cuz they're they're a startup. They've opened up their first unit and I said, "You got to prove the food out. You haven't even done the food before you go into the drive-in idea," which is what they want to do. So I said, you know, just get open. Let's find you a location where you can get open. And now they're working on their second location, also not a drive-thru, and it's a bigger footprint, which is still not the concept that they came to me for. They came to me because they wanted to develop a unique drive-thru idea. And um they're going to ultimately, I guess, you know, go to the drive-in and they have private equity. They actually, it's a film producer who had this idea and he's now putting a team together and he has the money because he's got some bigname backers. Like when Peter Morton at the Hard Rock Cafe said to me, "F the money," he had Steven Spielberg as one of his partners.
Zach Richards (28:33)
Wow.
Will Knox (28:34)
Now, now I will tell you, I will tell you a story. Hard Rock Cafe became scalable, right? because you you now know the hard rock is everywhere and there's a whole story to how it developed and redeveloped and was sold and sold and s you know the original founders are out of it. Okay. But um take take the case of Steven Spielberg who was one of the partners in the original Hard Rock in LA and years later he partnered up with a group out of Chicago to run the restaurant operations of the dive. It was called the dive. It was a submarine in a food court where actually we started our World Links concept. Century City Shopping Center in LA west side. Very high-end, very prestigious. They literally built a submarine. Okay. Building like
Mike Seidl (29:33)
Wow.
Will Knox (29:34)
9,000 square feet. What did they serve there? Sub sandwiches. Okay. Who did he who did? It wasn't just Spielberg. It wasn't just Spielberg and his group with money. He had one more element. He had let us entertain you out of Chicago, which is a big restaurant operating group with many different concepts. They knew the market. They knew they had people that they could bring in to operate the whole thing. They were going to scale the dive and do it all over the world and make it like the hard rock. That was the concept. And you would think, "Oh, I've got the money. I've got the name power and I've got the operator." Yeah. It didn't go. Okay. Years later, 5 years later, it it closed and they never opened up and they didn't scale it. And so, you're saying, "Well, why didn't that work? it. You would think it's SC. Well, maybe it was too big. Maybe it was just too big to, you know, operate. You'd think too big to fail like the banks, but that's not true. You know, sometimes you can get a small footprint and it's easier to manipulate the smaller footprint than the 5,000 square foot. So, you know, ease of operation can make things a little bit more scalable. That's that's
Zach Richards (31:00)
so a as somebody's scaling a restaurant, right? It seems to me I'm I'm speaking naively here and that's what I'm asking you is like, all right, I have one location is doing well. It's probably pretty easy to open a second one, maybe maybe a third one. Is there like a a critical mass or something that you find with people that once they get above a certain threshold, all the infrastructure and the distribution behind the scenes becomes the big bottleneck for people?
Will Knox (31:26)
Yes. Yes. So, I think you're you're very sophisticated about that because yes, if I was going to open up, you know, Zack Richards, you know, coffee house.
Zach Richards (31:36)
Sure.
Will Knox (31:37)
Excuse that. Zack Zachs. Let's call it Zachs. Okay.
Zach Richards (31:41)
Coffee by Zach.
Will Knox (31:43)
Zach's and whatever goes on at Zach's, you know. So,
Zach Richards (31:46)
y
Will Knox (31:47)
Zach opens up one. Now, where are you based, Zach?
Zach Richards (31:50)
I'm in New Hampshire.
Will Knox (31:51)
Where are we talking? You're in New Hampshire. Okay. So, New Hampshire is not a big camping ground. I mean, there's not a big demographic, but where would you open up your ideal spot where you live
Zach Richards (32:05)
by me in southern Is there a central business district? Yeah. Yeah. In like in Manchester is bigger city. Yeah.
Will Knox (32:12)
But you do one in Man You do one in Manchester. Okay. Where the elections are won and lost, I guess, right? Manchester and New Hampshire. Correct. That's the first first reports come in from New Hampshire. All right, that's as political as I'm going to get even though I'm wearing blue. Okay, so there we go. So, if you opened up, okay, in Manchester and said, man, this is great. And you said to your partners, I think we're ready to do a second one. Why are you ready? Because you've already proven that it's making money. You think that your team can open up a second one with let's just say a half hour drive time.
Zach Richards (32:53)
Yeah. Okay.
Will Knox (32:54)
Because you want to be able to get to it. Okay. If you're if I came to you and said, "Hey mate, I'm from London and I want to open you up in London right now." You'd say, "Well, well, that's fabulous. That's great." And you'd be seduced by that. And I'd say, "Don't do it, Zach, because you got to get on an airplane. It's very sexy to say we opened up a second one in London and we're now starting to go global. We don't have the infrastructure. So we want to open up five in a radius of say Boston to you know wherever you are you know that you could easily manage with with your team. And then I think after five, you know, you could show the world, hey, I've got five units and they're all making money and they're all making 20% 15% to the bottom line. That's a very good number to show, you know, bigger money that may have more infrastructure. And there may be another company that could come in and, you know, not necessarily buy you out, but maybe partner up with you. Or maybe there's a a franchising model that you want to go into. there any number of ways to grow it whether it's licensing own and operated yourself or franchising. I'm giving you a little bit of the weenie wars. That's kind of what I was going through for a while.
Zach Richards (34:13)
No, this is fantastic. Um I'm blown away how scientific
Will Knox (34:17)
I'll tell you something for my own sake with my own deal with World Links. My partner and I, you know, we had de we raised enough money to do a instore mall unit, a cart for special events that also took, you know, a vehicle, a truck to transport to the Rose Parade, you know, for the Rose Bowl. That was a second unit. And the third unit was our link mobile, which was a three-wheeler. You know, these meter maids that would write tickets on car, you know, they're driving around. Well, we we put a little kitchen on the back end of one of those and we drove around Beverly Hills and we, you know, would show up to the agencies and, you know, we we we'd sell links, drinks, and fries. That was our whole mantra. So, and we got on Travel and Leisure magazine and got some we got some promotion, but you know, you had to make sure your driver was clean every day and, you know, sober and that kind of thing. So, ultimately, you know, you you have to execute on that and you know, things can go sideways and it's a big pain, but you can only execute on the money you've got to work with. So, you know, we had a vision, but we we didn't have a second unit for 3 years until these airport operators came to us. Two, one was Host Marriott and the other one was called Delaware North in your neck of the woods from Buffalo. And both companies are called contract feeders for the airports. And so they wanted our concept to be part of their portfolio when they made a pitch to the airport to take over the operations. So we had to make a decision which company we were going to go with. And ultimately we went with Delaware North and they didn't win that particular bid package at LAX, but they said we've got other airports around the United States and let's partner up and that's how we were able to, you know, grow the brand through them.
Mike Seidl (36:32)
Got it. So, strategic partnerships are important.
Will Knox (36:36)
Sure. Strategic money.
Zach Richards (36:38)
So, yeah. I'm curious when a restaurant wants to look for a noa a location or they're looking for buyers cuz everybody wants this big, you know, uh, sale when they sell when they sell the business, they want to, you know, retire and hang out with Richard Branson. So my question is, what is it that one can do to their restaurant to make it look attractive for an exit or look attractive to a landlord or a buyer?
Will Knox (37:08)
Well, I I've got a client right now that is, you know, really, really, really just trying to get out of her operation. She's moved away from the area. She's got an absentee, you know, ownership position. Um the landlord has her on a personal guarantee. You know, ultimately, you know, she's just trying to get out cuz she's and she's not making it. She's changed concepts a couple of times and she's treading water. She's not, you know, losing a ton, but you you she's she's got the assets to sell. Okay. She built a restaurant from scratch. She took four walls and put in the hood, put in all the equipment, got a liquor license, spent half a million dollars, okay, on a 2,000 ft piece of property. Okay. 1,000 square ft indoor outdoors, 900 ft² indoors. So which you know holding her up right now I think there's a real reticence on the buying side of the world to pay much for anything because people think oh you know they're going to go out and I'll just wait and you know they're like vultures you know buyers you know they can they can just sit and wait some of them or if they see an opportunity they'll just try to make the best you know negotiation they can and then the seller will get out and she's not necessarily making money. She's just trying to recoup some money. That's one case. You know, in a case of somebody is building a brand, let's say like Zach's Coffee House in New Hampshire, you know, hopefully he's building it up to a certain point where he's got five units and he says, you know, I've had enough. I'm moving to my Orca. So then he'll put it out and try to sell it to somebody like me who wants to, you know, take five and then grow it to 20.
Zach Richards (39:08)
So there are people out there that that do that.
Will Knox (39:11)
Okay. But that's where you're making money and you're showing you're making money. There's a there's a buyer of a single unit who just wants to open up instead of, you know, the place that I'm talking about in Ohigh, they want to reconcept it and do it. you know, they want to do a fish joint. I'm just saying reconcepting it because these restaurants, you just don't know, you know, well, what's going to work? Marketing has a lot to do with it. The fue and and how things are kind of positioned in the building, that has a lot to do with it. Um, the concept itself, you know, um, I told this gal, you know what you ought to do? you ought to convert your place from what it is now and just do smash burgers. That's that's now I'm wearing my concept development hat. She said, "Smashburgers?" I said, "Well, not just smash burgers cuz my wife's not going to eat a smash burger. She wants a smash burger on a salad." Okay, so serve salad, smash burgers, and maybe throw in some chicken wing. You know, I was just brainstorming with her one day and throw in some great beverages. you know, create something that's different for the area that we're in that we know people will want. Mike just, you know, said, "Oh, Smashburgers. I like smash burgers." You know, so, you know, you don't know what's going to really work. And then if it is working, what multiple somebody's going to pay to buy your business. And typically if your business is, let's just say it's showing $100,000 in profit and I wanted to buy your business called Zach's Coffee House cuz it's making money. Well, I would put a multiple of three on that. So that there would be like $300,000 asking price for your business, not for your assets. I'm buying your business. So, why am I buying it? Because it'll take me three years to pay it off. I'm going to be okay with that. And ultimately, I'm going to grow Zachs from the current one unit that he has in Manchester to becoming a northeast hot cool spot that I'm going to create. That that's one buyer. you know, another buyer is seeing, you know, a single a single unit and just that's all they want. You know, they want to get their their kid in in business or something. Well, that's great. But if they don't have any experience, don't buy it or don't bring or don't buy it unless you have somebody on your team that knows how to run it.
Mike Seidl (41:56)
Gotcha. I know that you're the host of Mr. restaurant podcast. And I know for Zach and I with doing these podcasts, we're actually learning about our own business of private lending in terms of looking at different ways to perceive um the same issue or the same roadblock. What did you find or do you find when interviewing people in the industry that changes the way that you view ownership of restaurants and development of restaurants? Gosh, that's a that's a tongue twister.
Will Knox (42:32)
Um, I'm not sure.
Mike Seidl (42:34)
What do you learn from people on your podcast?
Will Knox (42:37)
What do I learn?
Mike Seidl (42:37)
Have you found that you learn from people that on your podcast?
Will Knox (42:41)
Well, I learned to be humble. I'm not that I was cocky, which which I'm not. You know, that's how cocky I am that I'm not cocky. But I I learned a lot that there is a certain character and I mean not personality but a certain uh not character flaw but a a positive thing that all these guys have. They're they're entrepreneurs every every one of them. Okay. and they're creative because they see a vision and they also like to entertain and it's very similar to producing theater or a film. It's it's instant gratification. So, they're they're dedicated to you and Zach and me walking away and saying, "I delivered." They're all committed to that. Now, are they successful in that? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. But they do have an underlying passion for wanting to please and see their vision realized and they're creative entrepreneurs and they have that in common. There's also a lot of frustration because it's a morning, noon, and night, you know, deal and, you know, it all falls primarily on that entrepreneur. And if they're not good with people, they're not going to succeed cuz it's a people-driven business. Whether it's talking to your vendors or talking to your people that are your customer or your employees. So, you have to be pretty good at handling the people part.
Mike Seidl (44:40)
Sure.
Will Knox (44:41)
Okay.
Zach Richards (44:42)
Makes sense.
Mike Seidl (44:43)
Well, we're we're running up on 45 minutes. We told you we weren't going to go more than 45 minutes.
Will Knox (44:48)
Come on. I want to go another hour. Appreciate your time. Let's go. This is I should have you on my I should have you on my podcast except now I'm looking for a new home for it. So anybody that wants to, you know, help sponsor Mr. Restaurant, give Mike a call and he'll tell you how to reach me.
Mike Seidl (45:07)
No, that's exactly what I was going to ask you, my friend. Um, how can people get a hold of you? Because I'm sure that you have a wealth of knowledge beyond what we talked about in the short period of time that you could help people. I know for me, I've got your phone number. So now I've got another tool on my belt when I speak to different people who are, you know, if they run into a restaurant concept or they're interested. So it's a tool in my belt now. So I'm I'm honored that you took time with us. What is a good way for people to get a hold of you?
Will Knox (45:33)
Well, I I have two two current employees only, Claude and Chat.
Mike Seidl (45:42)
Yep.
Will Knox (45:42)
So you could talk to chat. You could talk to Claude or Mr. Google. So, you could Google will knock and I'm sure my contact information will show up. My website is the Knox company.com and my phone number. I'm even going to give you my personal mobile because that's how hungry I am for eating again with you guys. 31093 6896. I I sound like Mike Lindell, the pillow guy.
Mike Seidl (46:20)
That's funny. Okay, buddy. We We appreciate everybody uh tuning in. If you like this uh episode, the best way that we can grow to help other people that are focused on growth is for people to know about the podcast. So feel free to share this, tell your friends about it in the business world and uh we can start an uprising, you know, getting people to grow and not focusing on not growing cuz that's what it's all about, right? So Will, thank you very much. And everybody, Will's information will be in the show notes as well. Will, thank you so much. This has been great.
Will Knox (46:52)
Thank you for including me. I appreciate it very much.