Kiva Geiger went from playing professional soccer in Kenya to selling Botox, then rose to a top performing sales leader at Verizon before leaving to coach entrepreneurs on high ticket sales. In this episode, he breaks down why the best salespeople sell from genuine curiosity instead of ego, how limiting beliefs about money quietly kill deals, and how to turn networking from collecting business cards into building real relationships.
Episode 35: Sales Psychology and Intentional Networking with Kiva Geiger
What separates a helpful sales conversation from a pushy pitch? For Kiva Geiger, it begins with removing ego, releasing attachment to the outcome, and asking questions that help the buyer reach the right conclusion for themselves.
In this episode, Mike and Zach sit down with Kiva, a sales coach, consultant, speaker, and former professional soccer player. He shares how discipline took him from a late start in soccer to playing in Kenya—and how that competitive foundation carried into an unlikely first sales role, corporate leadership, and entrepreneurship.
Kiva explains how he accelerated his career at Verizon by pursuing training, building relationships with senior leaders, and repeatedly returning to the fundamentals. After learning that personal sales success does not automatically translate into leading a team, he developed the coaching and accountability skills that helped him move into larger leadership roles.
The conversation explores the psychology behind effective selling: knowing the product, identifying pain or aspiration, listening for buying signals, and understanding the beliefs that can make a salesperson uncomfortable with price, rejection, or asking for the business. Kiva also shares the mindset practices he uses to quiet self-doubt and show up fully.
You’ll also hear a practical approach to networking with intention. Instead of collecting the most business cards or chasing the biggest name in the room, Kiva recommends being genuinely curious, staying present with the person in front of you, building relationship capital, and knowing how to close a conversation graciously.
“Your attachment to the sale—your attachment to wanting something—can be felt or seen on the other side.”
“There’s no failure. There’s no success. There’s only showing up.”
“It’s always about the people that are in front of you that you need to pay attention to.”
“Not everybody’s gonna like you, and if you’re too busy chasing being liked, then you’re in the wrong room.”
Kiva Geiger is a sales coach, consultant, and speaker who helps entrepreneurs and business owners sell more effectively, lead with confidence, and grow from the inside out.
Before building his sales career, Kiva played professional soccer in Kenya. He later spent nearly seven years at Verizon, where he became a top-performing sales professional and advanced into leadership, and also gained experience at Amazon.
Since leaving corporate America to pursue entrepreneurship, Kiva has coached and trained hundreds of sales professionals and business owners. His experience includes helping sales representatives on Alex Hormozi’s teams become more effective at selling high-end offers.
Kiva’s work combines sales psychology, mindset, networking, and practical communication. At its heart is a commitment to helping people break through what is holding them back, become exceptional at what they do, and build businesses and lives they are proud of.
Follow Kiva Geiger on Instagram, X, or Facebook; connect on LinkedIn; or email kivageiger@gmail.com
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# Save to Zero — Episode 35: Kiva Geiger
Kiva Geiger (0:00)
the sales process if you were to like stamp it. Number one is always asking for permission, knowing your product, identifying that this person can either use this service or not or identify needs. Either it's a pain or pleasure, right? Like there's two things that really drive us. It's either aspiration of where we want to be or I'm in a lot of pain because I I'm keep running the same thing and it's not getting me the result that I truly desire. If you can encompass and understand like getting good at sales is a must in any operation of business.
INTRO (voiceover) (0:31)
Most people think saving money is the answer, but the truth is saving only gets you to zero. Join Mike and Zach as they flip the script from saving to earning, from zero to unlimited potential. Welcome to Save to Zero.
Zach Richards (0:31)
Hey everybody, welcome to episode number 35 of the Save toZero podcast. Today's guest is Kava Guyger. He's a sales coach, a consultant, and a motivational speaker that helps entrepreneurs um build their their sales process and sell um with more confidence and effectiveness. He was a former professional soccer player and also a top performing Verizon uh sales leader. So, we'll get into all that. KA, thanks for coming on.
Kiva Geiger (1:18)
Hey man, it's a pleasure. It's great to be speaking with you both today. So, I'm I'm very excited.
Zach Richards (1:22)
Tell tell us about your background. How did you how did you end up where you are as a sales coach and talk about soccer, everything?
Kiva Geiger (1:30)
For sure. For sure. Um, I think I'll start with the soccer. So, uh, you know, I I started soccer at a very young age. Um, I got I got it was funny enough, I was actually better at basketball than I was at soccer. But what ended up happening is in high school, I didn't get a I didn't get to play on um I think it was like the JV team or the varsity team. And so that really frustrated me. So I actually quit basketball completely, started soccer midway through high school and just put all my energy into it. I realized about, you know, very young then about like discipline and uh showing up and and you know, let next minute I know I'm trying out and practicing with FIFA organized team in Kenya called Mthari United. So you're familiar with Kenya. there's a there's a certain area called Mthari. Um it's the the Stars is one of their best teams. And yeah, it was such a crazy experience because at that time I was still pretty young. I was like, you know, 21 22 in my soccer career and being able to play at that that that high level was great. Um I and and side note to that uh I actually had the opportunity of playing with the national team, but unfortunately I didn't have dual citizenship during that time. So, I wasn't able to do wasn't able to play for Kenya, but um
Mike Seidl (2:41)
So, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Let me ask I'm sorry. I got to ask a question a little bit to unpack that.
Zach Richards (2:46)
You were actually playing in Kenya.
Kiva Geiger (2:49)
I was playing in Kenya. Yes.
Mike Seidl (2:51)
Fantastic. That's cool. That is cool.
Kiva Geiger (2:54)
Imagine Imagine going to a whole another country and being like a mini celebrity. That's what happened, you know.
Mike Seidl (3:00)
I can't imagine that at all. I can't imagine that happen to me. I'm not going to be mini major or any type of celebrity status at all. So, I'll take you in for it. That's cool.
Kiva Geiger (3:09)
Yeah. Yeah. I was like one of the first Americans to play in the league. And so when you get a little bit of any little bit of TV time, people started to recognize me. So, it was it was a bit of a trip. And then, you know, you come back home uh to to America. And then, you know, I find out I'm waiting in line in clubs again. I'm like, "Oh, I'm just a regular guy, you know?" Like, like, you know, from the high life to the regular life real quick. You know what I mean?
Zach Richards (3:33)
Again, I have no idea what the other direction.
Kiva Geiger (3:35)
Okay. Well, ask me any questions and I can I can deal any deeper into it, but but uh but yeah, soccer was phenomenal. The experience was great. I actually had tried out for one of the local teams here and learned about pol the politics of soccer. Um and uh you know that that transformed into sales, my first sales job. And you know, I say this with uh I say this very humbling, but I was actually selling um at one point uh Juvéderm and Botox. So, imagine a 22-year-old in in an office has no no experience doing any of that stuff, consulting women on why they should get, you know, limp plumper to like, you know, explaining why they should be getting uh Botox in their face. And, you know, I don't know how I got there. I remember just shotgunning my resume out there. And, uh, that was my first sales, you know, gig out of out of after soccer. Um, and that's, you know, eventually
Zach Richards (4:26)
I know I know there's there's so many more stories to that, but we can save that after the call, you know.
Kiva Geiger (4:26)
Um, no, most people don't know that about me. Yeah, they're like, "What'd you sell?" I was selling Botox, man, and facials and all that crazy stuff. Um, and then fast forward, you know, I uh I got I read this book by uh uh it was it was it was a book on leadership principles by General Patton. I don't know the exact name. It's somewhere around here. I'll I'll come and grab it. But that transformed my whole perspective of like corporate experience. And so, you know, I jumped in at Verizon. I worked at Amazon. I was one of the fastest growing employees at both companies and uh I loved that experience and I loved the sales aspect managing territories getting people motivated and excited to to make money in in sales at very I felt like I was like the Tony Robbins of sales u when I was at Verizon and Amazon and um yeah that's that's kind of like the the the beginning of uh of how I got into it and then I loved it so much I ended up hiring a coach that was doing high ticket sales didn't know what it meant or what it was and he told me this thing called the way of being like how to be how to see yourself as a seven figure or the six figure version of yourself. What behaviors and habits do you carry? How do you show up every single day? And I embodied that fully and I was able to then uh match my income at my corporate job and then to separate at that time from from Verizon which was great.
Mike Seidl (5:50)
That's fantastic. Let me ask what about it? What about professional soccer prepared you or was transferable into the sales process in terms of preparation, resilience, dealing with rejection and so on?
Kiva Geiger (6:06)
I think it's, you know, like in soccer, there's, you know, uh, kind of that same relation to golf, there's no bad days. I mean, I was just really there to get better. Every day I know that something new is going to show up for me, but it's how I deal with it.
Zach Richards (6:06)
And so Kev, you spent what about seven years at Verizon where you rose to become one of the top top salespeople. What what was that like? What did you learn? What did it take to get there? Tell us more about that.
Kiva Geiger (6:32)
Yeah, for sure. I think like anything else, it's all about like setting a goal. And what I learned from some mentors for me like early on was to find like the top people in the company. And uh it was just something innate because it's like if you want to learn something, you want to learn from the best of the best or from like the leaders in the company cuz the most times you just hear them on, you know, we'd hear them on conference calls. And so I found out very early on um like education is key, like putting myself in specific rooms. So what I what I did is I found out in Verizon is they had a lot of training programs that you could sign up for that were actually free. I mean some of these were actually be paid. you could be getting paid to learn a lot of great stuff. But being in those same rooms, the people that would always sign up for those classes were actual leaders in the company. So in my first year within Verizon, all I did was even if I had to work an extra day, I would sign up for these courses like present day advantage to um overcoming like difficult conversations which were all applicable to the actual job that I had at Verizon. But what that did is it gave me access into a lot of VPs. And so those VPs became friends. They became contacts and I maintained those those those like relationships because to me I was like well you know if I aspire to get to where they want to be then I need to be getting the advice from those people. And so that book on you know Patton's leadership was just like ingrained into my thinking. So then wherever I went wherever there was a leader I would find a way to find something in common. So then that we would have you know something continued a conversation with which would always lead into some bit of wisdom that they could share with me. So that was in my first year and then I met a leader within the company the one that I've been following for some time and I made this really outlandishly bold statement to him because I was just I was like man this guy is like what I want to do in Verizon. He's leading like hundreds of people. He's making the business profitable. He's giving people like opportunities to show what they can. And so I remember um I'm in a store, mind you, at the time and not even assistant manager, just a rep. And he's standing there talking to us and I go, "Abdul, I'm gonna work for you." And it was like an unconscious like like just spit it out. And what that ended up doing was that was the precursor that I needed to uh leveling up because I said something very bold and I didn't know how I was going to get there, but I knew that if I kept doing what I was doing right now on a day-to-day basis at work, networking and connecting, the opportunity would show itself. A year and a half later, um I apply for a manager. Everyone tells me like, "Hey, you're not going to get it. You've only been with the company for, you know, like like you're still a baby, man. you've only been in the company for like less than less than a year. And I was like, "Okay, sure, sure, sure." Um, I was the best when it came to like my numbers. I was, you know, I was in the top three every month. I was very consistent and my customers really loved me. So, when I applied, it was it was almost like a shoe and I got it. And so then that that ended up getting me to where I started managing my own location, the store. And 3 months in, I realized like this was a death sentence to my paycheck. Like I was literally taking I was taking I took a 20 grand pay cut because when you're a soul like you're you're so focused on your own personal sales. It's easy to focus on your own personal sales and I hadn't mastered the skill set of teaching other people like what I had learned. So I found myself actually helping these people close sales more often where then they became very dependent on me. So then I was like, "Okay, I need to go back and relearn a new skill set to teach people how to be like me and hold them accountable to the words that they say, not what I say." So then I jumped into a couple more training classes. I maxed out every Verizon VZLearn course that you can think of. And because of that, when I think back on it, when I applied for an account manager role, typically these people that have been in the company for 10, 15 years get this role. This is a leadership role in the company. you're you're managing over 140 points of distribution which are Verizon resellers. You got to manage large contracts. You're constantly on the road. You got to be collecting a lot of data. So then that we as a that the time as a company know we're moving in the right direction. But again, what I said is that I built a lot of relationships. So those courses that I was taking when I was applying for this position, I just called in like I something hit me where I was like I you know I have this relationship. Why don't I just call in a favor? like I'm I'm a likable guy. I work hard. I do all the things that the company requires me to do. I'm going to go apply for this position if if they're not going to give me the blessing. Like as I was saying to my head, like I call like, hey, I called up two director. I was like, hey, I'm calling for the blessing. I'm applying for this role. If you got any feedback for me, like just tell me so then I can work on it and grow on. They're like, oh, which one which one are you applying for? And um I remember I was going against at least I think it was like 50 to 60 candidates including some external for this specific role. And I ended up getting this role which was like the like I felt like it was a Hail Mary because I've never had so many people doubt me or tell you. I mean maybe we've all been there at some point when you're trying to do something in in corporate and people just [ __ ] you know they just shut you down. You know what I mean? They [ __ ] on you. They try to say things to prevent you from having what you want. But
Mike Seidl (11:52)
yep,
Kiva Geiger (11:52)
I went I went back to that mindset to to get what I wanted.
Zach Richards (11:57)
And then you were at Verizon and then what made you leave? You left corporate America, you decided to go your own way. What what was that like?
Kiva Geiger (12:06)
Well, the the transformation for me was a it was kind of like a mindset thing where um I was like, man, I'm doing this for somebody else. What if I did this for myself? like what if I just took a chance on myself to actually go and sell and coach and help businesses the way that I'm helping them right now and get wins and and you know like the the revenue that they're specifically looking for. And that was kind of like the the the talltail sign. I was like, let me go out there and test and see if this is actually possible. And you know, I I took that I took that chance, man. And um I was able to match my income, you know, 150K I was making at Verizon to making 150K doing sales coaching, which was unbelievable to me.
Mike Seidl (12:50)
That's fantastic. How long did it take you when you're out on your own to match your corporate income?
Kiva Geiger (12:57)
It took me in in all honesty, it took me uh a solid year and a half because I was still working half time and I was still trying to allocate the time, get on new clients. A lot of my conversion was online or in person going to networking events. Um, being able to relate. But I would say, yeah, it took me about like a year and a half to from like getting coached, making mistakes cuz, you know, it it's it's uh when you take a chance on yourself, there's a lot of things you don't really know until you're in it. And I learned a lot about myself in that process.
Zach Richards (13:32)
Sure. That that opens another door. What's the biggest thing you learned? What do you think was the most important thing that you learned?
Kiva Geiger (13:38)
Man, the biggest thing I learned was uh you know, like I mentioned before about the stories that you tell yourself. Um,
Mike Seidl (13:38)
sure.
Kiva Geiger (13:45)
I had I had unconscious stories from old uh that I learned uh from people as I grew up and I learned that those voices in my head were not were not the seven figure the six figure version of me. Those were, you know, you guys get what I'm saying with this? You know, it's like so I those voices became so loud that it's just like I had to characterize each person so then that I could recognize who was talking to me, you know, like the self-doubt like, oh, that's that's from the haters that, you know, told me the same thing at Verizon that I couldn't do this, you know, people always trying to tell me no and you you know, versus like who's who actually believes in me? Me, you know?
Mike Seidl (14:26)
Right.
Zach Richards (14:26)
Right. Oh, no. I hear you. Um I think every entrepreneur goes through that. you have that those voices that are in your head. Uh I heard somebody call it one time the little gremlins and I kind of use that on occasion where you got to fight the little gremlins and say, "Hey, where'd you come from? Get out of here."
Kiva Geiger (14:43)
Oh yeah.
Zach Richards (14:44)
Go spend time in Ca's head. I'm busy. And and I think what what really helped me out was uh there's this term where um anything that's nonsensical where it's like a fear-based response or or thought, I kind of categorize it in my head and maybe this will be helpful for others is head trash. Like that's head trash. Like
Kiva Geiger (15:04)
if I'm if I'm coming to you and I'm asking for advice and then I know this is the advice that will help me get in the direction, but if I'm listening to advice externally that doesn't math out or make sense and to me like that's just head trash or fear, you know?
Zach Richards (15:18)
Yeah.
Mike Seidl (15:19)
Yeah. You you said a few minutes ago that what you did was you found people that I'm sorry you found that people in the sales classes and the higher level sales classes were VPs and higher.
Kiva Geiger (15:35)
Mhm.
Mike Seidl (15:35)
What do you think it was about that? Or did you go in there knowing that they were higher level or did you go in and find out they were higher level? That's part a of my question.
Kiva Geiger (15:47)
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so I went to like a go to market meeting and that was like my first experience. And so go to market meetings are simply, you know, like if you're in corporate, if you guys know what it is, it's, you know, like one of the biggest meetings where they come in and talk about specific topics to find a solution, right? Uh, but to answer your question, I had I came in with just sheer ignorance, right? Like I just came in with the perspective of learning and wanting to learn how to be better as a person so then I could get better results. And then what I found out is that these this is how all the highle thinkers in the company operate. Like some are taking um the same class they took maybe a year or two two years ago to refresh the skill set, you know.
Mike Seidl (16:29)
Yeah.
Kiva Geiger (16:29)
Which I which to me was amazing. Yeah.
Mike Seidl (16:33)
It's it's interesting you say that because I found that going back to the basics are so important. when I I'm a whitewater kayaker and I learned from a guy who won a gold medal at the world championships at one time and what he said was and there were five different levels of kayaking one through five and he would be out there on class one two water practicing moves and I remember going up to him one time and I said Bruce why are you out here and he said very simply you learn class four five moves on class one two water and you just you've got to stay focused on the basics so It's interesting that they did the same thing. A different different category, a different u situation, but they did the same damn thing.
Zach Richards (17:20)
Interesting.
Kiva Geiger (17:21)
Yeah. Very interesting.
Mike Seidl (17:23)
Let me ask you a question. When people I'm going to switch gears a little bit on you. When people talk about sales psychology, what do you think people most misunderstand when it comes to the reasons that customers actually buy?
Kiva Geiger (17:37)
That's a good question. um if we're talking about in this in this this situation, there's there's just so many variants of sales, right? Like depending on what you're selling, what your offer is. I think the biggest miss when it when it comes to that is um it's really asking the right questions. I think a lot of times people are really looking for a solution and you know when I talk about like the mindset element of it the mindset needs to be for the salesperson is that I can actually genuinely help you but it comes across in a way that is not like I'm trying to sell you to say like hey I'm I'm going to I'm your saving grace like come give me your money and so on so forth. The the biggest thing is like a lot of people sell from ego. So you got to remove yourself from the equation 100% because when you start selling from your own place then then people can read that from a mile away like 100%. You know what I mean?
Mike Seidl (18:35)
Sure.
Zach Richards (18:36)
But then going along those lines I guess like how do you how does somebody sell something without being like too pushy, you know, too arrogant, manipulative about it and really turning people off like you kind of mentioned.
Kiva Geiger (18:50)
Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a saying it's like attachment breeds suffering. So, your attachment to the sale, your attachment to wanting something can be felt or seen on the other side. And so, in order for it to feel like genuine, like the sale to be full fully like genuine, um, you got to know your product. You got to know how it serves people. You got to know how it helps people. You got to know the pains of the issues that the people are running into so then that you can navigate them through their own thinking. So then that they can come to a conclusion. I think some of the best sales like if you see people that sell on stage because they're selling one to many um they're they can figure out a way to sell to you directly so then that you can see yourself hiring this person getting the results that you desire. Um I I I think that's the most effective way that I've seen sales is getting people to come to the conclusion that this is a good fit for them. Some people do need a push. That's a different conversation. But um some people do need like that nudge or that push or someone to call them out. You know, again, if they're doing something that's actually not if they're in their own way, if that makes sense, too.
Zach Richards (19:58)
Yeah, that makes sense. So, a lot of times when people, right, like you said, they talk about what they're selling, but you're saying, you know, talk more about what it does, how it helps you, the value that it brings, right? And like do you have any tips or advice for people to help make that that mindset shift?
Kiva Geiger (20:18)
100%. I think it's all about the questions you ask yourself, but then it's also what you ask your clients. There's there's always an ego part of us that knows like, hey, you know, um let's say we're jumping on a sales call today and and somebody is like on the on the call to get immediate clarity. Sometimes it's just asking questions like, hey, you know, I'm really happy we're having this conversation today. What is it do you think I can help you with? So when you ask that question, it helps navigate the person in the right direction of knowing where I should carry the call or where I should carry the conversation. Um, from a fulfillment standpoint, it also fulfills me as a person knowing like, oh, they're reaching out to me to get help in this one space or this one solution. The next thing, a lot of times, you know, I don't really share this or talk about this too much, but I'm constantly kind of like level testing someone's, you know, emotional state, uh, as well as, um, their mindset. Like, how do they think about the problem? Like, are do they see themsel as the problem? Because a lot of behaviors that we have are very unconscious. So, if I can bring your unconscious behaviors to your consciousness to help you see where you are making a mistake or you're not creating outcomes that you want and then ask you a question of like if you could change that, what would that look like? That's kind of where I want to be. I know I'm very talking very figuratively, but if to give you like an example would be um so I sell like one-on-one high ticket coaching. So, what that looks like is uh we work on, you know, your mindset, your behaviors, the self-sabotage. When does that stuff show up? So, what I'm really digging in for is I'm trying to figure out when when does the self-sabotage pop in, when do you doubt yourself, how often do you do it, when does it show up? So, then we can kind of quarantine that issue or that problem, create awareness behind it, and then an action plan of what we can do to to fix it. Typically, it's like, hey, if we work together for six months, eliminating this belief system, eliminating the way you think about it, what do you think will happen in your life?
Mike Seidl (22:15)
What do you think are some of the most common internal barriers that prevent salespeople from selling effectively such as rejection uh uh fear of rejection, lack of confidence, discomfort selling, uh asking for money or something else?
Kiva Geiger (22:15)
I mean, the most common sometimes I see this one too when you have people hire is called like uh like money [ __ ] right? Like this person might have grown they might have grown up broke. I think you and I kind of talked about this a while back. Um let's say you grow up broke and you've never seen $150,000 in your life, right? Um and then now you're on this program where you're selling people on $150,000 program, but you've never gone through the the emotional journey of the finances to create in your experience. that's always going to seem like a lot or expensive to you. Does that make sense? So, it's like if if I'm constantly if I'm constantly in in an energy where I haven't created a thing, then it's like you're the person is working out of um a belief system that I am not worthy or I am not enough. And so, do you see? So, then where this all comes from is is it's a belief system like you have to believe that you are the person that you were born to be on this earth to go and create these results and do these things. If you don't believe it for any reason, like you've got, you know, a lot of this stuff is deep, man. Like I I'll be honest, like I have people cry on calls because like I'm digging into like like primal stuff like, you know, this happened to you as a kid. Now it's showing up as an adult in your sales perspective where you can't close a deal, right? But then this person is this person is a genius when they're on stage or a genius when they're in a room. But when it comes to sales call, all of a sudden this stuff about their family pops up onto a call. So then my question is like why you bring your family into your business? So it's it's an emotional state. You know, I think that's what what I always run into. That's why I focus so much on the mindset. I'm like you almost have to re-engineer the way the person thinks. Like if like I like I said before like a great question to ask yourself on a constant basis. What does the seven figure version of myself do? What does the eight figure version of myself do? What are the behaviors? What are the habits? How do they show up? So then now you have a a ste a template process in order to move or guidelines or a goal to move towards and then everything in between is all the [ __ ] that we work on. You know what I mean?
Mike Seidl (24:36)
Yep.
Zach Richards (24:37)
Yeah.
Mike Seidl (24:38)
Well, let me ask you a question. I know that I've heard of some well-known speakers that before they get on stage, they run through some type of mantra in their head or they go they they they say something to get themselves ready to be on stage so they can leave that other stuff behind, you know, the gremlins in their head. Is there something that you say before you get on stage? Because I know you speak publicly. Is there something that you teach your your students or the people that you're coaching to say before they are, you know, before it's game time?
Kiva Geiger (25:11)
Yeah, one of one of the ones that um you know, I just posted a picture of me when I did my uh like major keynote on like how to network in rooms and like high level rooms, right? Uh mine is very very simple. I I stand I call it standing in infinity where it's a posture where my shoulders are, you know, back. I take a deep breath in and then it's like the I am. So some people have their own I am chance. That is like I just go I am ka. I am ka. I am ka. And then I just just give myself the pat and it just wakes me up. And then that's when I'm like it's go time because there's no failure. There's no success. There's only showing up. That's it. It's it's about just showing up. Just being the best version of yourself. And whatever happens, I tell myself like the the story that I run with is that whatever happens is it's it's like the universe is conspiring for me. So it's just like the universe is conspiring for me. The universe is conspiring for me. Anything that happens is for me. Even if I feel, look, taste or or these emotions that I might feel might feel bad. Again, it's just like I am ka. This is who I am. This is what I'm meant to go through. But the activation is is something that Tony Robbins does. I mean, you hear about it like Eli Wild does this, you know, and so for me, it's an embodiment. It's not just going on stage. This is every day. Every day.
Mike Seidl (26:37)
Gotcha.
Zach Richards (26:38)
Wow.
Mike Seidl (26:39)
Okay.
Zach Richards (26:40)
Okay. Interesting.
Kiva Geiger (26:41)
Was that Was that too much energy?
Mike Seidl (26:43)
No.
Zach Richards (26:44)
No. No. That's exactly what we're looking for. That was great, man.
Kiva Geiger (26:47)
Yeah. Yeah. cuz you have to you have to own it, you know. Um yeah, I think I think being a man and I think there's there's these parts of like you know um where do we find like our primal state like our hunger and our drive and you know like I get that from you Mike when you every time you it's like you're traveling or you're you know you're in a you know you're in the canoes fighting them rapids man I you know what and then it's like with you Zach when you're messing with those bees like you know to me I'm like this guy's probably getting stung and he's just like ah it's nothing you know and you just keep moving right but
Mike Seidl (27:18)
Oh no he cries. Oh yeah,
Kiva Geiger (27:23)
his wife told me he cried.
Mike Seidl (27:25)
She makes him edit He makes her He makes her edit the videos. He cries every time.
Kiva Geiger (27:30)
Oh my god, that's too funny.
Zach Richards (27:34)
Yeah. So, you've done a lot of of selling with like Alex Hermoszi and now you sell um other high ticket stuff. What's a different way like I guess my question is like selling high ticket stuff versus either low ticket items or or how high ticket sales can apply across different businesses where it's not super I guess what what applies regardless of what high ticket item you're selling.
Kiva Geiger (28:00)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, first off, everybody is always selling you something everywhere you go online, in person, when you're going to a store, things like that. So, your awareness needs to be aware. like I I want you to just I'm giving this as a free pro bono, right? So imagine that everybody's all constantly trying to inundate you with new things of why you need this that will help empower and better your life. Okay? And so as a sales individual um you need to be aware of of this in in general. What was the question again? Let make sure I got this one so I can
Zach Richards (28:33)
like how how people can take what might apply selling a high ticket offer in one business to to a different business.
Kiva Geiger (28:41)
For sure. The psychology. So, okay, the simple the simple the simplest part is like the sales process if you were to like stamp it. It's number one is always asking for permission, knowing your product, right? Identifying that this person can either use this service or not or identify needs either it's a pain or pleasure, right? Like there's two things that really drive us. It's either aspiration of where we want to be or I'm in a lot of pain because I I'm keep running the same thing and it's not getting me the result that I truly desire. And so if you can if you can encompass and understand like getting good at sales is a must in any operation of business. I have a buddy of mine who just reached out to me who does a lot of work around like cranes. He gets government contracts, all that type of stuff. He texts me and he goes, "Man, I need to get better at selling because these guys are talking to me about stuff that I don't know and they're trying to upsell me and I know this isn't right." And so it's think of sales as like information. The more information you have in the vertical and the realm you're in, the best place you will be to be the most knowledgeable around what actions that you take for yourself or for your company or wherever you go. But in in hindsight, there's there's so much information that can overwhelm you around sales. But I think about it this way. Um, find a person that you really resonate with their sales process, how they do it, and they're coming from a genuine place. And that's always the best way that I think like especially jumping into sales to learn.
Mike Seidl (30:08)
Interesting. Let me ask you a question from my own perspective. Um, because I'm an operations guy by nature.
Kiva Geiger (30:15)
Yeah.
Mike Seidl (30:15)
So, I'm generally very focused. don't have a lot of time, want to get to the point, let's move on. And one of the things that absolutely drives me nuts is when you're speaking to a salesperson, you tell them exactly what you're looking for and they try and sell you what they have versus what it is that you're looking for. How does how do you train your people that you're working with that you're coaching to sell the person what they need or to be a solutions provider versus um being a salesperson so that you can just tick off your numbers and meet your numbers for the week or the month.
Kiva Geiger (30:54)
For sure. I think it starts with honesty. Like you shouldn't be talking about some some something to somebody um that's out of your scope or you're not really sure on how to solve. Like if there's someone that ever brings something like that to me, I always say like if you don't know, you got to say you don't know. But if you're looking for an answer, I can find it for you. Um there's also this will be helpful for you Mike because you're you're very very much I think we talked this like very much a theoretical I think know Zach you are also is very very much too. So in the sales process if you haven't have you guys are you guys familiar with disk assessments.
Mike Seidl (31:26)
Yes.
Kiva Geiger (31:27)
Okay. So if you go in and you understand like the behaviors of the disk assessments out of the four categories if you can categorize people within those it'll help you understand how to talk to each individual. So when someone is talking to you about something that doesn't hold any re like relevance, you can kindly call them out and tell them what it is that you're specifically like looking for. Recorded calls are very much super important to review. I think that teaches you a lot about your salesperson and what they're saying specifically if it's not resonating with the client. But then it also, you know, like I guess in my mind like a lot of questions come into play like what's got them distracted? Why are they not listening to the the the I call it like buying signs, right? Like buying signals, buying signs, things that are, you know, are relative to you versus just, you know, talking to fill the air, right? Like being nervous and I'm just talking to talk.
Mike Seidl (31:27)
Gotcha. When it comes to networking, when I go to events, there are people that I see that are simply going to meet everybody at the event, and that's what they're going to do. They're going to give out their contact information to everybody at the event, but they can't possibly be having meaningful conversations with everybody at the event. You just can't. There's 150 people there, and it to me it doesn't make any sense. And I could be totally wrong because networking is not my my strong suit. Again, I'm an operations guy. So my question is, what is a way to make networking productive versus transactional?
Kiva Geiger (31:27)
You have to set an intention of what you want anytime you go out the door especially when it comes to networking like the type of people that you'd want to interact with to the level of conversations or maybe hobbies that you can share with somebody. The reason I bring that up is because we as human beings have an unconscious ability of attaching ourselves to things that we think about. So, if you're thinking about, I'm going to meet some great people. They're going to be very much in the same hobbies or interested in things that I do. With that constant mindset, you're you're a lot higher likely to to run and see those people versus like running and talking to like a hundred people. If there was somebody like that, I'd probably shy away. Or if they're just trying to hand me a business card, I'd probably, you know, forget about that interaction. I'm looking for someone just to be human, I guess, to say. you know, I want to learn about what's important to them, what are their hobbies, you know, what what excites them, what drives them. That to me is much more impactful than, you know, just trying to slide out my business card. I'm in sales, you know, if you need help, let me know. Like,
Mike Seidl (34:02)
yeah,
Kiva Geiger (34:04)
you know, you know what I mean? So, it's to me, I'm I'm I I've done the mistake of going into rooms like that. And um what that taught me was just you just got to be yourself. Not everybody's gonna like you. And if you're too busy chasing being liked, then you're in the wrong effing room. Like, be honest with you. So,
Zach Richards (34:25)
and I think it's obvious when people do that, too.
Kiva Geiger (34:27)
Exactly. You know what's funny is like, you know, like my perspective in it and um is I just walk into a room and like I just feel like the right people are going to gravitate towards me. And you know what happens? It happens every single time. Like the right people always gravitate towards me. or if I see something that that I really like that somebody's wearing aesthetically, I I just be like, "Oh, that's a really nice watch. What's the story behind it?" Or, "That's a really nice necklace." Like, we all wear jewelry or things or extensions of ourselves somewhere if it's like a tattoo or something like that. So, I I I genuinely am curious and I ask thoughtful questions. So, then, you know, like, you know, like, oh, what brought you to this networking event, right? like we're all here for the same thing, but it's just like, hey, you know, like what are you looking to get out of this event? Like what are you most excited about? You know, oh man, me too. Right. So, it starts up something more genuine. So, it's to me, Mike, you know, it's about um are you clear in the intention that you want to get out of the room?
Mike Seidl (35:27)
Sure. It's funny. There's a guy and I I I I'll take responsibility for it that I'm just not a memorable guy, but there's a guy that I've met at an event that in a group that Mark is part of, that Zach is part of as well. I have met this guy three times he's introduced himself. And each time he has introduced himself, he has no idea who I am the next time he introduces himself. And I see him go around the room and he has a brand. And I'm not going to say what the brand is, but I've seen him go around the room and do that. And it's like he starts the room all over again. So we go to the next event and he introduces himself again. And I thought that was odd the second time it happened. I thought, "Okay, he he meets a lot of people." And then I go to a third event and he introduces himself again. I'm like, "Okay,
Zach Richards (36:12)
if somebody says, "Look, I'm sorry. I know I've met you a couple times. I just cannot remember your name. I apologize." That's fine. But to at least some ever remember that you've met someone before, like come on. Yeah.
Mike Seidl (36:24)
And it's he's he's got a volume game going on cuz I've heard him say, "Oh, I went to this event and I met everybody at the room and that was my goal." Okay. But all you did was tick off a box of meeting meeting everybody. You didn't get anything from that. I'd rather go to an event and meet one person that moves the needle and have a meaningful conversation and start the relationship because for me, relationships don't happen that fast. You have to build on them. You got to build your relationship capital. And to go in and think that you're this whisbang person, you're gonna make 52 people and whisbang 52 people. It just doesn't happen. It doesn't even remember you met him. What's the point of that,
Kiva Geiger (37:02)
you know? So, can I can I can I share a story with you guys that's like so on par with that? You know, I went to I was in Miami and I was at sales call, one of the coolest events. It's, you know, all sales guys, you know, agencies and things like that. And so, you know, what I learned about going to networking events is like if you can talk with a keynote speaker, that's a win, right? Um, but I'm just not a big fan of like standing in line, you know, just like
Mike Seidl (37:28)
Yeah.
Kiva Geiger (37:28)
to get to the person that you want to talk to. Like that's crazy to me. Like just spend the extra money so you can do the VIP dinner or or something that you get that interaction, right? Yes. Yes. So, so, so, so I remember like I remember this happening and you've got like a bigname speaker, you know, if I, you know, I mention him, you guys know exactly who it is. And so there's a line I'm like I'm like I I feel like the universe has given me two options. It's like I've got a guy in front of me that's talking to me and we're talking about marketing, we're talking about sales and and all these great things. And in my mind, I'm like, I could end this right here and then talk to the main guy. But then I realized I was like, what impression would I make by just ending a conversation with somebody just to talk to somebody else? It's always about the people that are in front of you that you need to pay attention to. So I turned off the switch of trying to talk to this other person and wait in line. And I focus on the individual there. This guy, his name is Charles. He's got a fun uh fractional uh accounting business. He's one of the biggest names in the Florida area. He drives McLaren. And me and him like and I didn't know any of this stuff prior. We're just talking about business. We're talking about hobbies and you know, you know, sports cars, all these things. And then I just thought to myself, man, if I would have ended this conversation by not focusing on this individual, I wouldn't have built this friendship that I now have with him. And I end up popping on to his uh school account, coaching other um uh some of his uh uh accountants that are trying to sell their 10K programs, you know, to to risk averse people, right? and like how to how to navigate those those people, how to navigate those behaviors, how to get them to say yes for people that don't like to do sales, right? And um that's that prime example again like you know like you really got to focus on the people that are in front of you versus just getting like that you know shiny object syndrome like oh I want to go talk to that person and you know miss out on a huge opportunity. Well, you know that guy on the stage who everybody's lining up to see doesn't remember 99% of the people that he or she saw that they met because everybody's come a guy to get the photo, shake their hand, and tell everybody on Facebook that they met this person and everybody knows Yeah. You got in line and shook his hand. I mean, what's the big deal
Mike Seidl (39:39)
exactly what profound what profound what he can he say in one to two minutes is so profound that it'll like you know what I mean? The real conversation you can you can like
Kiva Geiger (39:39)
Oh, exactly. Yeah,
Zach Richards (39:51)
exactly.
Kiva Geiger (39:53)
Yeah, there's nothing.
Zach Richards (39:54)
Yeah.
Mike Seidl (39:54)
I was at an event and I went up to this guy. We were in line uh getting lunch or something and we started a conversation. And then when we talked a little bit during lunch, then we met again after lunch and we started again. And while he was speaking with him the first time, somebody came over and interrupted us and started a second conversation with him, which is a pet peeve of mine. But then he went along with that conversation. I thought, "Okay, that's fine." And then when I met him again, he did it a second time with somebody. So we're in mid-con conversation. He starts completely different conversation with somebody else while I'm standing there like, "Okay, few minutes go by. I'm considering walking away." I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to give this guy a minute. He's got some juice. I want to be a little respectful." And then he did it a second time. I said, "Yeah, I'm out." And he said, "Oh, we didn't finish our conversation." I said, "You're too busy. You're having three conversations at the same time. You're not that important.
Zach Richards (40:48)
Yeah.
Mike Seidl (40:49)
And I just walked away like I'm done. I'm out. I I just can't Yeah. Zach's laughing because he remembers the exact situation. Like, yeah, I'm out.
Kiva Geiger (40:59)
What are you supposed to do, right? Just stand there while No.
Mike Seidl (41:02)
You're not that important.
Kiva Geiger (41:04)
Yeah. So, no. Yeah. I think and it's also timing, too. I mean, because I, you know, in networking events sometimes it can be a little bit tricky because you don't want to overt talk, you know, and I think this is a good point to share this part. It's like don't spill your sauce, man. Don't tell them how you do what you do. Don't don't give out all the gems in a one conversation, especially if it's a potential opportunity or client or even partnership, right? I think there's that that art of breaking bread and being able to do it very quickly within like five minutes. And I think that's kind of like the the max that you want to have unless it's like a very enjoyable conversation and you know you guys are really connecting, right? But um right I you get it like the most important things in those interactions is like the phone number, the email, and then that's you know that's pretty much it, right? And schedule a time to really have like that one-on-one conversations. But you know, it also reminds me of how do you get out of painful conversations in network?
Mike Seidl (41:57)
Yeah.
Zach Richards (41:58)
Right.
Mike Seidl (41:59)
Yeah. Please share the secret sauce because I would like to know that secret sauce.
Zach Richards (42:03)
These people that come and they verbally vomit on you and you're like, "Okay, you just need to stop talking. I can't listen anymore.
Kiva Geiger (42:09)
Yeah. Uh, less is more, especially if you're on the listening side of it. I mean, you know, the words that you can say that can continue and provoke this conversation. There's I call it like the the kindly bowing out. It's just like, "Hey, man, it's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure." And you already start doing the backst step. And and the reason being is the reason being it's just like, you know, I'm not going to make an excuse to go to the bathroom when I don't need to go to the bathroom, you know? And and I and and this actually I picked up, you know, very quickly when I was on the Verizon side and um some from some high levels, right? Because they know that their time is valuable and they don't want to be burning it like with any other person. So what I learned that they do is to always repeat the person's name. John, it's been great. Thank you so much for your time. Uh let's stay connected. Uh here's my email. And you just kind of give them something or a way of like connecting with you. And then there's some other people that I need to chat with, but this has been great. And then you just back.
Mike Seidl (43:05)
I'm gonna let you go. Yeah,
Kiva Geiger (43:06)
I'm gonna let you like, oh man, this has been great. You know, and I think the the the thing about it is like you gota you gota you got to cut it. You got to know when to cut it. And so for me, I just know when to cut it. If it gets awkward or if I feel like there's no more no more value in it. Um or the conversation goes a little bit stale, you know, you know, or a little bit a little bit more awkward silence than normal. That's typically the cue, right? Like just listen to the cue. It's okay to move on to the next conversation or to meet someone else in the room,
Zach Richards (43:37)
but it's all about the back step. It's all about the back step.
Kiva Geiger (43:40)
You gota do you got to do the back step out.
Mike Seidl (43:42)
Remember that.
Kiva Geiger (43:44)
There you go, Mike. You got it. You got it.
Zach Richards (43:46)
Talking to Michael Jackson.
Kiva Geiger (43:48)
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. When you're at this when you're this far away, you're like, "Hey, it's been great." And then just
Mike Seidl (43:54)
Yeah. Yeah. Well, what I'm going to remember is if I'm in that situation, KA and you're in the room with me, I'm going to say, "Hey, KA, I got a guy here I know that you want to talk."
Zach Richards (44:03)
Yeah. He's got a lot of information I think you'll find valuable.
Mike Seidl (44:07)
And then you just kindly like, "All right, guys. You guys should join."
Kiva Geiger (44:11)
Yep. Yeah.
Mike Seidl (44:12)
And I walk away. And purely a coincidence, I promise. KA, we've been going at this for more than 45 minutes now. And um want to be respectful of of your time. Is there anything else you want to, you know, tell our audience how they get a hold of you?
Kiva Geiger (44:28)
For sure.
Mike Seidl (44:28)
Whatever else information you want to share?
Kiva Geiger (44:30)
Yes. Um, if you want to follow me on social media, it's just, uh, CAGER. Um, you can find me on all of them on X, Instagram, Facebook. Uh, I've got some speaking engagements coming up, some very exciting ones that I'll be announcing. Um, in California, I've got a book coming out later uh, later next year as well, like how to network and make a friend in five minutes. Exciting stuff. But, you know, if you want to just learn more about sales, you want to learn about the psychology of it, just being a good human being, um, just give me a follow. I'm very interactive. I love, you know, sharing what works for me and and, uh, also sharing what I've seen some of the best do in the sales space. But, uh, you know, other than that, I I appreciate you guys, you know, uh, having me on and just talk about sales, talk about the journey. It's been it's been a lot of fun.
Mike Seidl (45:16)
Fantastic, man. Thank you very much for your time, CA. It's been great. We should stay in touch.
Kiva Geiger (45:16)
Yes. See you guys. I'll see you guys later.